Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:19 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Decibels and powder monkeys.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:34 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:26 am
Posts: 82
Hello Mark,
As ever thanks for your reply.
Regarding for example the lower gun deck on board the Victory, can anyone gauge the decibel level when it was fully operational?
How were 'powder monkeys' recruited or 'pressed' did their next of kin have any say?
Maybe orphans were used?
Perhaps it was viewed as a prestigious occupation was there 'one per gun'.
Thanks Mark.


David.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Decibels and powder monkeys.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 1088
David

Here are a few bits of info. I can't guarantee it to be 100% correct so if I have got anything wrong somebody please correct me.

Firstly regarding the decibel level on a gun deck. I have no idea if anyone has done a proper (scientific) study. You would think they would have but if so I don't think I have come across it. It is fairly "common knowledge" that the men wrapped scarves round their ears to protect them from the noise. And I am sure I have seen reports of men bleeding from their ears - maybe due to a perforated ear drum or somesuch. But that's about all I can say on that subject.

Regarding boys (powder monkeys et al) in the Navy there is a bit of terminology to get used to. Up to 1794 (I think) they went under the generic term of Captain's Servants and after 1794 they were Volunteers - 1st/2nd or 3rd Class. They could enter the navy in various ways. I don't think boys would have been pressed as such but many were sent to the Navy by charities including the Marine Society. Then of course there were those who entered the Navy under "preferment". e.g. Nelson was entered on the books of his first ship by his uncle who just happened to be the Captain! Many "favours" were done by Captains to get young boys on the first rung of the career ladder.

Of course relatively speaking the amount of time that any ship was in action was very small but the captain drew up "a quarter bill" to cover that eventuality. It allocated roles to the crew - the majority of them to the guns - with some of them having subsidiary roles such a "Boarder" or "Sail Trimmer" if they were required for those purposes.

I think generally speaking one boy would be allocated to each gun and he would serve as the "powder monkey". But I'm sure if other pm's were killed or injured he might end up serving the powder to more than one gun.

Those are a few initial thoughts.

MB


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Decibels and powder monkeys and education.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:26 am
Posts: 82
I appreciate your time and effort Mark.
Probably many things would of been used for ear protection, but it would really be not allowed because hearing orders was paramount for obvious reasons.
Ive read in 1800 that 67% of the population of England was literate, i wonder if this was needed on the Victory, surely some form of training was needed of course.
The 'pms' job was very dangerous indeed handling the gunpowder.
You mentioned some 'charities' supplied boys which would of been linked to churches who had access to 'education'.
I also read at that time approximately 50% of the country attended some kind of 'church' at some time.
Many 'nautical' families were based around Portmouth i guess.
All this stuff will probably be in forums i think, its just my thoughts now.

David


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Decibels and powder monkeys and education.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 2:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:26 am
Posts: 82
I appreciate your time and effort Mark.
Probably many things would of been used for ear protection, but it would really be not allowed because hearing orders was paramount for obvious reasons.
Ive read in 1800 that 67% of the population of England was literate, i wonder if this was needed on the Victory, surely some form of training was needed of course.
The 'pms' job was very dangerous indeed handling the gunpowder.
You mentioned some 'charities' supplied boys which would of been linked to churches who had access to 'education'.
I also read at that time approximately 50% of the country attended some kind of 'church' at some time.
Many 'nautical' families were based around Portmouth i guess.
All this stuff will probably be in forums i think, its just my thoughts now.

David


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Decibels and powder monkeys.
PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:17 pm
Posts: 217
Just a bit of fine tuning on this interesting topic.

As Mark says, the names used to describe new entrants to the naval profession(s) were bizarre and misleading. Thus, those destined to become officers were originally described in the ships’ books (before they had the experience to become midshipmen) by terms which bore no resemblance to what they actually did - ie as ‘servants’ (generally ‘captain’s servants’- though there were ‘lieutenants servants’ as well). Sometimes they were entered, after a bit of experience, as ‘able seamen’ – but this was just a name: they were not seamen in any real sense but were actually ‘young gentlemen’ and walked the quarter deck, indeed some were the sons of peers and admirals. One cynical First Lieutenant of more humble origins in a ship with a high percentage of such young men is famous for amusing himself by yelling orders like ‘My Lords and Gentlemen – shiver the mizzen topsail!!’

Training was done on the job using something like an apprenticeship system. We all know of ‘captain’s servants’ as officer entrants. In fact all commissioned and warrant officers were entitled to one of more servants (according to rank) in order to train up boys (often relations or the sons of friends) in their specialities.
As Mark says, this system (or lack of it) of describing new entrants was replaced by a new one in the 1790s in which they became described as First, Second, and Third Class’ boys (though the first group – destined to become officers - received the more prestigious title of ‘Volunteers of the First Class’). Second Class boys were warrant officer material; and the Third Class Boys were destined to become seamen.

'Powder monkeys’ were clearly drawn from the Third Class of boy. The quarter bills which survive show that the crews of the heavy main and lower deck guns all included one powder monkey (the situation regarding the lighter carronades is not so clear), and since each guns crew served two guns (they are allocated in the quarter bills in terms such as ‘number four gun and opposite’) a frigate would have needed 16 boys for this purpose and a 74 gun ship 30 odd. The number needed exceeded the number of Third Class boys in the muster roll (the ones I have seen anyway) which suggests that some Second Class Boys might have been so employed as well. Likewise some captains’ orders use the term ‘powder man’ which makes one wonder whether all ‘powder monkeys’ were in fact boys. The situation is not entirely clear however, as the initial ‘P’ which was used in the quarter bill to designate the powder monkey/man (just as ST meant sail trimmer and B boarder) could also be used to indicate the man who could be called on to man the Pumps!

Brian


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 85 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by p h p B B © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 p h p B B Group