Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:26 am 
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Andrew Baines says they need to make sure the mast is from HMS Victory. I thought that the masts definitely are not the original masts. I can't remember which ship they came from but they're metal aren't they?

It is possible that they only replaced two of the masts with metal ones. That bit I can't remember for certain.


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:18 am 
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The article refers to a "section of foremast" and a "fragment of foremast". I therefore assume it does not refer to the foremast now on board Victory.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 2:35 am 
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Yes, it is the damaged section of mast on display with a shot hole through it. From hms-victory.com:
Quote:
This section of foremast was preserved during the repair works that took place in early 1806. The hole in the mast passes cleanly through at the thickest part of the timber – about 80cm. It was probably caused by an 18pdr gun fired from the lower deck of the French ship Redoubtable. It was a seaman on the same ship who fired the fatal shot which resulted in the death of Vice-Admiral Nelson.

This mast is also able to reveal new information about how Victory appeared at the time of the battle. A current study of the paint fragments to be found on this mast is underway with a view to establishing the original colour scheme. We hope also to learn more about the mast through dendrochronology – the use of tree rings to establish dates.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Mark,

The Victory's masts, I think until her current refit, were from HMS Shah an iron hulled frigate of 1873. They replaced Victory's then masts, as they were also of iron and would thus be lighter on her structure. According to Alan McGowan, in his 'HMS Victory – her Construction, Career and Restoration': 'It was in the 1880's that the Victory's lower masts were replaced by the hollow wrought iron masts of the Shah, and the dry docking of 1887 is the likeliest occasion for the change' :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Shah_%281873%29

This gives the impression that all of the masts were changed, but this may not be so.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 3:58 pm 
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Per Tony's post, of course if it's the piece of mast that was originally at Windsor Castle etc. etc. then any paint is likely to be very representative.

Thinking about this, personally I would like them to go a couple of shades lighter to a colour that is known as Old Gold. Having been a Wolverhampton Wanderers supporter for the last 45 years that would be very pleasing on the eye as the traditional Wolves colours were Old Gold & Black.

You never know Wolves might like to sponsor Victory and put club badges all over the place!

O.K. calm down, mind your blood pressure, I was only joking!! :D

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 4:14 pm 
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It could fund the complete restoration. Just swap clubs - and colours - every three months...

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:53 pm 
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Tony wrote:
It could fund the complete restoration. Just swap clubs - and colours - every three months...

Tony, You gave me a laugh out loud moment there. Victory decked out in the different football club colours. Genius!

But then it turned to panic at the thought of the royal blue with white stripes of our Black Country rivals. (Albeit that I have lived in enemy territory myself for many years now).

MB

PS Hope others don't mind this bit of levity - after all we are serious most of the time!


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 12:03 pm 
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Mark,

Sorry if my earlier post about Victory's masts, prior to their removal for the refit, seems a little out of place in the general discussion – but you did ask.

Andrew Baines research into the paint colours on the fragment of the 1806 mast are interesting, and I may have to revise my previous remarks – although he also implied that the mast and the hull colour were not necessarily the same.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:09 pm 
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These images from ‘Sketchbook of a cruise on the Foudroyant 1800-1806’ featuring British ships of the Mediterranean fleet in 1800 might provide a small clue about Victory’s 1805 appearance:

Plate 8. Lipari Islands with the Bull dog, Captn Dacres:
http://brbl-zoom.library.yale.edu/viewer/1467291

Plate 15. Guillaume Tell in Syracusa harbour } from the Foudroyant:
http://brbl-zoom.library.yale.edu/viewer/1467380

Plate 28. Marsa Scirocco harbour at Malta, from the Foudroyant:
http://brbl-zoom.library.yale.edu/viewer/1467395

The colour scheme is certainly a whiter shade of ochre – though Cornelia Knight, the artist, seems to prefer a delicate palette overall. The chequerboard effect is evident – though it’s difficult to tell whether the gunports are open or closed. Those masts are quite arresting. Almost a bumble bee (waspish) hoop effect. Perhaps Cornelia exaggerated the size of the iron bands, but don’t they look wonderful?

The presence of the Guillaume Tell in Syracuse harbour ( plate 15 ) exactly a month after her capture by Foudroyant – must have been a stunning sight. Given that Guillaume Tell had arrived there on 3 April - and Nelson, the Hamiltons and Cornelia pitched up on 30th - the painters seem to have made short work of giving her the British Mediterranean fleet look. The reaction of crew and passengers on board Foudroyant as she came into view must have been terrific.

If we’re divvying out football team colours to fund Victory’s future, please can I propose claret and blue. The made in Lancashire variety. For (touch wood) 3 May.

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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:54 pm 
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Jacqui,

Wonderful little paintings. I do hope that Victory ends up closer to those colours than she is now.

Funnily enough in my young days I used to be a Burnley supporter. In the very early 60's Spurs were the absolute top team of the day. So many of my friends supported them that I took against them. And I decided to support their rivals in the Cup Finals of 1961 & 62 which was of course Burnley & Leicester City. I was a sort of long distance supporter of those 2 teams for about a decade - until I ended up in Wolverhampton and the Wolves became my team. Good luck on May 3rd and hopefully you will move up and leave a space for Wolves to move in to!!

MB


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 Post subject: Re: HMS Victory's 'hideous orange' paint
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:07 pm 
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By popular request, this thread has been split. See here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1628 for posts on how warships were painted.

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