Nelson & His World

minor correction: I'm no more a Mr. than I am a Collingwood.

General Wolfe and the Marquis de Montcalm most definitely died on the Plains of Abraham, but I didn't know there were Heights of Abraham too. Took a look online and there it is with caverns and all.

"Since first opening its gates to visitors in 1780 the Heights of Abraham has become one of the Peak District's most popular destinations"

I wonder if Nelson...? oh never mind

Thanks Collingwood.
Because its been open so long there a fair chance yes...
He would certainly of been aware of it for sure.
Reason been, it was pre 'grand tour' days, i believe the Romans used it, but they weren't exactly receiving paying guests!
That kind of thing started about 1840.
Nelsons family property in Sicily 'received' tourists until the 1970s.

David.

David,

Carrying secret orders, to be opened by the ship's captain at a specific place, a latitude and longitude position, or point of land, etc., was quite a common practice. There were two reasons that I can think of for this: a) The Admiralty obviously wouldn't want the enemy (usually the French or Spanish) to get wind of their intentions, which they might have done through spies, loose talk, etc; b) it might perhaps also be thought, in certain circumstances, to keep the information from the crew of the ship concerned – for obvious reasons. However, I don't think 'secret orders' would have been possible in this case, with all the furore of the fitting out, manning, etc., which many would have known about both inside and outside the navy. Consequently, none seem to have been issued.

Regarding Cook's first voyage in the Endeavour 1768–71, the primary object of the expedition was for the scientists and naturalists aboard to witness the transit of the planet Venus across the sun, at Hawaii – an important task since the phenomenon was not to occur again for approximately another hundred years. Although naturally Cook would personally have been interested, very likely Sir Joseph Banks and the other scientists merely expected him to get them there, although I believe he did take some observations himself. A second task, with which Cook was personally entrusted, and as revealed to him in his Admiralty orders (although he knew of them before he was again at sea), was to search for the fabled great southern continent, which was widely thought to exist at the bottom of the world. The Terra Australis Incognita, as it was known, was believed by many at the time to be a great land mass in the southern hemisphere counterbalancing that in the northern part of the world – evidence for it being the supposed sightings, from ships of various nationalities, over the previous century and more. It has to to be said that there was also a certain amount of hysteria generated, regarding both the wealth to be found there and the fortunes expected to be made!

Banks, and presumably many of the others aboard the Endeavour, were themselves believers in this mythical land – whilst the practical, level-headed Cook didn't believe in it at all. I think he had suspected its non-existence for some time, but common sense probably precluded him from saying so amongst the scientists and men of learning in the limited confines of the Endeavour – at least until he had proved them wrong! As it was, given the sensibilities of the age and it being his first voyage, Cook was regarded (if not by the Admiralty) as very much the 'junior partner' in the enterprise and he would have been expected to keep his place. I imagine however, there must have been many occasions where he had to bite his tongue – not an enviable position! When Cook later proved that there was no such land mass, we can imagine the feelings amongst the adherants – anger, disappointment, resentment, and finally acceptance! Banks wrote of his feelings in a letter, but he didn't seem that put out - after all he was a wealthy man in any case.

Regarding the breadfruit, Cook naturally knew of the plant, but the role of transporting it, of course, fell to William Bligh – and I think we all know what happened on that voyage, just ten years after Cook's death!

Kester,
Breadfruit is very popular in New Zealand with pacific island communities, however these days its seen as for special occasions
owing to its high cost, because its all imported, taro is the cheaper alternative.
In the islands a large part of the community have family owned 'plantations' with no cost at all, food wise they live well.


David.

A brilliant piece on Cook’s first voyage and the context Kester, but aren’t you overdoing the ‘fabulous’ nature of Terra Australis Incognita? Cook lived (and his voyage epitomised) the Age of Reason and the Enlightenment in which knowledge was no longer to be gained through the study of ancient texts but was to be acquired through the application of scientific and mathematical principles and by experiment and investigation. The existence of the great southern continent was not a ancient ‘myth’ (as was, for example, the early Portuguese belief in the existence of a Back Christian King called Prester John on the southern flank of the Muslim world) but was based on the calculations of mathematicians (as you point out) who, in the footsteps of Newton, had not only worked out the circumference and volume of the earth but calculated that there had to be a great land mass in the south to counterbalance the weight of Europe and Asia in the north. I very much doubt if it was a widely held belief at all but was confined to the more esoteric parts of the Royal Society. It certainly didn't take long for the theory to dissipate once Cook had disproved it. But before then, I imagine it was a scientific hypothesis rather than a widespread superstitious myth.
Brian

David,

Thanks for that. I did not know that about the breadfruit in New Zealand.

Brian,

I did not mean to infer that 18th century knowledge about the Terra Australis Incognita was based solely on ancient belief and superstition since, as you say, contemporary science in the age of reason would certainly have been brought to bear on the question.

However, I think I stand by the use of the words ’fabled’ and ’mythical’, in the sense that the idea of a large land mass at the bottom of the world was in existence long before the Age of Enlightenment – and is actually thought to have first been suggested by the ancient Greeks. It was from the sixteenth century that European explorers attempted to find it, suffering many false leads in the process, and before Cook disproved the whole theory.

You are probably right though, in that the 'widely held' view, was not actually that 'wide'.

I must be missing something in this discussion, as there is, in fact, a continental land mass at the bottom of the world...?? So what did Cook disprove?

The 'land mass down there' was so cold it wasn't habitable to sustain 'normal' human life, thus of little use to the empire.
The 'myth' in that sense of the word was put to bed.
In other words disproven.

David.

I was actually hoping for a reply from Devenish as I didn't understand what he/she was referring to re: Cook disproving a theory about a large land mass at the bottom of the world.

Sorry Collingwood,
Its thought it wasn't until 1821 that the American, Captain John Davis was the first man to set foot on what is Antarctica.


David.

Kester. Thanks for the correction re the antiquity of Terra Australis Incognita. My ancient history clearly isn't what it should be - but I am willing to learn.
Brian

Collingwood and David
I don't think the great land mass of Terra Australis Incognita was thought to be Antarctica (that is the area round the south pole whose northern equivalent was clearly the Arctic), but a vast continent balancing, and a similar size to, EuroAsia which was thought to occupy a huge chunk of the Pacific at the same latitude (ie around 30-50 degrees S) and was infinitely bigger than what we know as Australia. Cook proved it wasn't there by sailing across it.
Brian

Brian,

’No worries’ – as they say in Australis Cognita!

David, Collingwood (btw, I'm a he),

Following the observations for the Transit of Venus (they took place in Tahiti, of course, not Hawaii – my apologies for the slip) and following his Admiralty orders, Cook sailed to 40° south latitude, well within the estimated area of the supposed Terra Incognita, and found nothing. He then sailed westward, again as ordered, to search between 30° and 40° south latitude, and then north for the east coast of New Zealand – again finding no sign of land. There were seemingly other indications too and Cook himself was pursuaded, by the strength of the currents met with, that there was no large land mass to interfere with their strength and direction. As Brian indicated, in the process he sailed across what would have been large chunks of the Terra Incognita.

Cook then set about charting the coast of new Zealand, which resulted in his circumnavigating both the North and South islands, and defining them as we largely know them today. It would seem that as each new coast was sighted, Banks and the other scientists’ hopes rose, and they were convinced it must be the elusive, long-sought, land. Their hopes were then repeatedly dashed – which I imagine Cook found quietly amusing!

Having done that, Cook then sailed across to the east coast of Australia and charted his way up the coast, discovering many new places – including naming a likely-looking harbour Botany Bay. They also ran aground, but managed to get off, although damaged. Following repairs, Cook then sailed and charted his way up the Cape York peninsular and returned home by way of the Torres Straight.

On the second voyage in 1772, Cook was determined to disprove the theory once and for all (there were of course, still adherants to it back at home) by sailing his two new ships, Resolution and Adventure, first to New Zealand and then south and east towards Cape Horn, ie., in another sector of the supposed land, and as yet untried. ’It must be here, or nowhere’, he said. Again there was nothing, at 60° south, and the theory of a land 'flowing with milk and honey' was scotched once and for all.

Cook then turned his attention to other exploration. Antartica was of course not then a fact, but very likely Cook suspected that there was at least some land at the Pole – somewhat smaller than Terra Australis, much less hospitable and a lot colder. He and his crew (Adventure had parted company) certainly experienced the extreme cold, for which they were dressed in fearnought suits, and well as seeing many ice bergs and floes. On January 10th 1773 Cook reached as far south as he was going to get, his way blocked by an ice-field, at 71° 10’. As the Resolution turned for home a young midshipman George Vancouver, perched right at the end of the bowsprit, boasted afterwards that of all the crew he had been the closest to the South Pole.

I ascended the Heights of Abraham in Quebec on a visit there. As a poetry lover, I could not help but recall this famous anecdote: the night before the battle, General Wolfe read aloud Gray's Elegy in a Country Churchyard, and on finishing, said, 'Gentlemen, I would rather be the author of that poem than take Quebec tomorrow.'

The poem is full of memorable lines, including the reminder (very 18th century) that we all must die, whatever we have achieved or inherited in life:

The boasts of heraldry, the pomp of power,
All that beauty, all that wealth e'er gave,
Awaits alike the inevitable hour;
The paths of glory lead but to the grave.'

Quoted from memory so apologies for inaccuracies - and for the digression!

Anna,

No need to apologise for the digression, and I'm sure Wolfe was also mindful of the man who made it all possible.