Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:31 am 
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Hello Forum~
Nelson had his medals stolen from the Painted Hall in Greenwich 9 Dec 1900:
Was the theft thoroughly investigated and what became of the incident?
Is there any knowledge of possible suspects at that time, or any thoughts on what may of happened to them?

David :?


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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 2:35 pm 
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David,

The theft was certainly investigated at the time, although today we would probably think that not enough was done – and of course modern forensics would have been used, which might have been instrumental in the recovery of the medals. Sadly, it is believed that they were melted down. Nelson's Breast Star of his Order of the Bath would almost certainly have been in the collection, and thus stolen too, had it not been given to Admiral Keats by William Earl Nelson after his brother's death. I believe this medal remained in the Keats family, and was sold at auction a few years ago (the estimate was for £300,000-£500,000, but I think it went for more (I can't remember the amount, although I'm sure someone will come back on that.) A reward of £200 was originally offered at the time of the theft and a suspect, Alfred Carter, was apprehended in 1904. Convicted, he was given seven years 'penal servitude' – whatever that meant.

Incidentally Anthony Cross, of the 1805 Club and Director of the Warwick Leadlay Gallery in Greenwich, wrote an in-depth article on the theft for the Club's 'Trafalgar Chronicle', in which he brought all the strands of the case together, from period reports, newspaper articles, and the police files. I think he believed the man who was sentenced was wrongly convicted and there was some question as to the police actions at the time, including those of Chief Inspector Charles Arrow of Scotland Yard, who headed the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:12 am 
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Hello Kester
From the little i know of it, its seemed a very harsh sentence.
Perhaps Alfred Carter would of been 'picking oakum' as hard labour meant just that.
I suspect police corruption may have quite high in those days.
Somebody, somewhere is 'enjoying' some of those medals right now.

David :?


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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 4:27 pm 
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David,

Yes, it does sound harsh – especially if they didn't have the right man! However, seeing what was stolen and the feelings of the general population when the theft became known – that any right-thinking Englishman could contemplate such a crime – I'm not that surprised. Well, at least he wasn't hanged, which of course was then still on the statute books!

It seems to me though that the security was pretty lax, and that the premises weren't properly checked before closing time, as it would appear that Carter (or whoever it was) hid himself in the gallery. I remember reading somewhere that the security was the responsibility of the Greenwich pensioners themselves. If true, I wouldn't have thought that an ideal solution, for such irreplaceable items of national importance. Today the cases would certainly have been alarmed, and perhaps with a direct link to the local police but even that, of course, is not foolproof.

Yes, picking oakum sounds about right, or sewing mail bags, but it would seem the medals themselves were indeed melted down.

A post of Anna's in another thread, reminded me of the later theft of Nelson's chelenk (I believe in 1951, and from the NMM). In this case the actual thief admitted a few years later, that the item was broken up. I've forgotten his name, and I don't know what sentence he received.

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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:28 pm 
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Kester

Still seems a little 'fishy' to me, i wouldn't be surprised if in the future a medal turns up somewhere, perhaps overseas.
Its has all the hallmarks of a classical 'inside' job; but having said that the medals were literally to hot to handle.

David :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:43 pm 
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Marzy wrote:
i wouldn't be surprised if in the future a medal turns up somewhere, perhaps overseas.
Its has all the hallmarks of a classical 'inside' job; but having said that the medals were literally to hot to handle.

David,

Well you might be right and it would be great, of course, if they did turn up somewhere. As you say, something like that would be very difficult to get rid of.

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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:26 am 
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Am I right in thinking that the diamonds in the chelengk were of comparatively little value? What a letdown for the thief.

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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:00 am 
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Hello all
Yes Diamond value quite moderate but historical value priceless.
The robbery was well planned they probably knew; again i personally believe there still out there somewhere.

David :?


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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2014 3:25 pm 
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Firstly, my apologies for coming so late to this topic. As I have said elsewhere on the site I have been abroad most of this year so have got a little behind.

It was suggested earlier that the Greenwich Pensioners had been responsible for security in the Painted Hall at the time of the theft of Nelson's medals in 1900. This is not the case. No naval pensioners had been resident at Greenwich since the closure of the Greenwich Hospital in 1869. The buildings remained empty for the next four years.

Arguments over the quality of the training given to junior officers in the Royal Navy led to the establishment, on 1st February 1873, of the Royal Naval College in the complex of buildings vacated by the Greenwich Hospital. It brought together under one roof the training of executive, and later engineer, officers above the rank of Midshipman.

The history of the Painted Hall itself is also quite interesting. It was originally intended to be used as a dining hall for the Greenwich Pensioners. However, from 1708 the work of painting the Hall (by James Thornehill) caused pensioners' meals to be permanently moved to kitchen level in the vaults below. Later they were also served in the under-Chapel. The Painted Hall was given over to the many visitors who flocked to see it, buying a printed description, supplied by Thornehill, from the hall-keeper. The Hall stood empty until January 1806, when the body of Lord Nelson was taken there to lie in state. It never resumed its function as a dining-room during the time of the Seamen's Hospital.

Soon after Nelson's lying-in-state the Painted Hall became a picture gallery and naval museum and for a long time relics of Nelson (including the funeral car and personal items he was wearing at Trafalgar) were preserved there. By the 1830s the lower windows were bricked in and the walls covered with paintings.

The Painted Hall remained a picture gallery after the closure of the Greenwich Hospital and the establishment of the Royal Naval College. The official name of the gallery was the 'National Gallery of Naval Art, and it contained over 300 portraits and paintings of naval actions. However, in 1936 the paintings were moved to the new National Maritime Museum. The move allowed the Royal Navy to use the Painted Hall for the purpose intended by Wren - a grand dining room - and on 1st May 1939 the Painted Hall opened as the Mess of the Royal Naval College. It remained in use as such until the Royal Navy's departure from Greenwich in 1998.

Pete


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 Post subject: Re: Painted Hall
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2014 12:18 am 
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Thanks Peter for your very detailed information on this subject.
No need to apologise we are all 'busy'.
Who knows something may 'turn up' I'm sure I'm not the only one with an interest in this.

David :)


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