Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 11:30 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Could Sir William Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 02, 2015 11:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:48 pm
Posts: 18
Forgive me if this question has been raised before: I have tried searching the forum and only found queries about Emma's parenthood, not Nelson's), but is there any evidence that Emma had ceased intimitate relations with her husband at the time of Horatia's conception? I have Googled this also, and no one appears to have questioned this, but perhaps there is evidence I'm not aware of? I'm hoping someone on this forum can shed some light on it.

Don't get me wrong, as Horatia's 3rd great granddaughter, I am proud to be Lord Nelson (and Emma)'s direct descendant, but it has struck me in reading a biography of Emma (Emma Hamilton by Julie Peakman) that no explanation was given as to why it is "known" that Horatio was definitely the father. It could have been that all three of them wanted this to be the case, but the key question is: can we know for sure?

Lily Style


Last edited by lilystyle on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 pm
Posts: 33
Hi Lily Its interesting to see someone directly related back to Emma Hamilton . I recently joined the forum to share Lady Hamiltons Seal which you can see in an earlier post. Sorry I cannot advise on your post.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 pm
Posts: 33
A friend of mine works on a farm at Castle Goring Worthing and there is someone called Clem Somerset born 1956. Is he related back to Horatia via the Somerset and Tribe family ? http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... /f4716.htm


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:30 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:48 pm
Posts: 18
Hi steveyb,

There is no one by the name of Clem Somerset on the family tree I have worked out so far, but this doesn't mean he isn't related. Anna Tribe nee Somerset is my 3rd cousin 1x removed and we don't know each other personally. Also, online genealogy sites don't show records of living people, making them hard to pin point. My brother's research so far has found 32 living descendants of Horatia. If you can PM me the name of your friend's parents; grandparents; dates and places of birth & marriage, etc, I can see if anything tallies up. Also it might be worth your contacting John Tribe, Anna's grandson through his blog: http://www.johntribe.co.uk/the-descendants-of-lord-nelson-and-lady-hamilton/

Lily


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:48 pm
Posts: 18
Re Lady Hamilton's seal, I have just looked at the thread where you posted it and found seeing it actually quite moving. It's fabulous that you have had it verified by the British Library. Many thanks for sharing this image. My family has nothing of Emma's ourselves, though my mother does have Horatia's chair (which, if you search, you will see my brother posted a photo of)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 pm
Posts: 33
Hi Lily

Glad you liked the seal . Having been given this at an early age it has resulted in an interest in the life of Lady Hamilton and Nelson .We live quite close to Uppark and I love visiting and thinking of Emma living there. I still have no idea who obtained it but it was one on two families Bawden or Dathan .
I will try to post a photo of the pill box it sits in where someone has written in pencil " Lady Hamiltons Seal "
and also try to find out a bit more about Clem Somerset .
Steve


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:15 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 pm
Posts: 33
Will re post later when I reduce file size


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 2:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:37 pm
Posts: 47
On the original point about Horatia's father, of course Nelson failed to impregnate Fanny whom we know could bear a child (Josiah). I can't recall who said it but I remember a quote that when someone referred to 'Nelson's Emma' the response was "you mean Anyone's Emma".

Ray


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:48 pm
Posts: 18
Hi Ray,

Thank you, but oh dear, I feel I might have opened up a can of worms! I want to focus on looking for evidence that Emma's relations with Lord Hamilton by 1800, when Horatia would have ben conceived, were platonic only.

I take your point about Nelson failing to father a child with Fanny (who was 26 when they married and, as I understand it, was not a love match), but I feel it's worth also bearing in mind that Lord Hamilton was in his 60s when he married Emma (so he might not have been that fertile himself)

Re Emma's possible promiscuity: without concrete evidence, I'm going to take stories of her having slept around with anyone else at the time she was with Nelson as based on slander (she was very unpopular with some people for having come from a working class background and having behaved freely for a woman of that era).


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could lord Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 17, 2008 10:40 pm
Posts: 1088
Lily

Just on a slight tangent here, but you should be saying Sir William Hamilton. not Lord Hamilton. The title Lady, as Emma was, applies to the wife of a knight, as well as a Lord.

It is probably best if you edit your posts and the original title of the thread to avoid confusion.

You should see an edit button at the bottom right of the post. Click on that, make any changes, and hit Submit.

ATB


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could Sir William Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:48 pm
Posts: 18
Good point Mark, thank you. This is why I posted the question on this forum: I'm not an expert :)


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could Sir William Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:32 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 2830
Location: mid-Wales
Although Emma was a little free with her favours in her early life, I think that after her marriage to Sir William, her conduct was exemplary until Nelson entered her life. It is clear from her letters that she was grateful to Sir William not only for raising her to the status of a lady but for giving her the respectability of a married woman which she was careful not to risk. Naples at that time was a hotbed (!) of loose behaviour and yet there was not a breath of scandal about her sexual conduct. She had many detractors who were ready to criticise her manners, dress etc. but not one of them ever suggested that her behaviour was loose. They would certainly have spread the rumours had there been any. Until Nelson appeared, she was a remarkably devoted wife to her elderly husband - even baking him apple pies!

As for Horatia's paternity: there is a photograph of her in old age in which she bears a strong resemblance to Nelson. Her several times great granddaughter Anna Tribe also has Nelsonian features. Does anyone recall a photograph of her standing alongside a bust of Nelson? Their profiles were remarkably similar.

Re: possessions of Lady Hamilton. I have a piece of music which might be hers - and then again it might not, eh Mark? :)

Here's our earlier discussion about it:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=909&hilit=Lady+Hamiltons+music

_________________
Anna


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could Sir William Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2015 8:23 pm
Posts: 33
Ref Anna Millicent Horatia Fitzroy Somerset is there any connection to the Fitzroy Somerset family ? They are related back to royalty.Or is the Fitzroy a red herring ?

http://www.beanweb.net/ft/frippuk/pafg126.htm

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for ... 31551.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Somerset_senior


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could Sir William Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2015 3:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:11 am
Posts: 44
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Sir William was born in 1731 so when Horatia was born in January 1801 Sir William was near seventy years old. But even more compelling is that Emma was completely in love with Horatio Nelson and was an extremely loyal person. Sir William had become a father-figure in the family. If you, Lily, have not yet seen the 1929 silent Vitaphone film The Divine Lady starring Corinne Griffith as Emma please do so. It was uploaded to YouTube by N&HW member Rae Rae Franchi but can also be obtained from Amazon for about $11.00 US (http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Victor-Var ... B002PAP6GQ).

While Emma is always known as Lady Hamilton she was created a Dame of Malta (for men it would be Knight of Malta) by the Russian Czar for her efforts in obtaining food to help the population there during a famine. There is a famous painting by Johann Schmidt in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich (http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and-sh ... and-nelson) showing her wearing the Cross of the order, which she obtained permission from the King to wear in England. She was always proud to be the first Englishwoman so honored. So it would be correct I believe, although she is never referred to as such, to call her Dame Emma.

To be a direct descendent of Emma must make you proud almost beyond belief.


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
 Post subject: Re: Could Sir William Hamilton have been Horatia's father?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:51 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:48 pm
Posts: 18
Thank you, Jesse, for these inspiring words regarding Emma. And, yes, I am proud to be her direct descendant and my pride is growing exponentially as I learn more and more about her outstanding, independant achievements. I am in the process of/feeling the ground for setting up an Emma Hamilton Society (beta site, here: http://www.emmahamiltonsociety.co.uk/) and would very much value your contribution of ideas and knowledge, if you would be interested in being involved? I am thinking of adding a pro-Emma publications list and the film you refer to would be relevant to such a page. Lily


Top
 Profile E-mail  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 93 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by p h p B B © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 p h p B B Group