Nelson & His World

When a flag officer such as Nelson removed from one ship to another in a foreign port, I'd half expect the operation to be akin to moving house with possessions, furniture, documents, staff having to be carefully transported. Quite a big operation.

What needed to be done and what organisation would be involved?
What kind of disruption it caused, especially for the receiving ship?
How long the operation might take?
Would the flag officer be on hand to direct the move personally, or would it be more normal to keep out of the way or go onshore until the job was done?
Who would be responsible and in charge of things?

Apologies for lots of questions, but if anyone could provide a source of reading for this, or outline the procedures circa 1796 - 1805, I would be most grateful.

Mira:

The opening of Chapter 4 of Brian Lavery's 'Nelson and the Nile' has quite a long description of Nelson's arrival on board Vanguard on 29 March 1798, but this was at Portsmouth, not in a foreign port. It's quite long, so I won't type it all out until (or unless) I know it will be of any use to you!

It must have varied a lot, depending on circumstances, the state of alert, etc. Nelson transferred from the Victory to the Amphion while at sea, and also back again again at sea a few weeks later. He does refer to Hardy putting up his portrait of Emma. The flag captain would certainly have a lot of responsibility, and perhaps the lieutenant on watch would order the boats etc. I imagine the admiral's steward and secretary would take on a lot of the organisation. All just guesswork, I'm afraid.

Mira,

I'm not sure we can be that specific about the details of a flag officer and his retinue moving from ship to ship, since: a) it probably wouldn't have been written down or remarked on, except perhaps in the general sense, by the admiral concerned since it was just something that had to be done; b) the servants, even the admiral's secretary, probably didn't think it necessary to record something so mundane - unless someone like Chevalier wrote something in their memoirs, should they have any; c) I don't think either that too many naval historians are particularly interested in that side of naval warfare (or I haven't read their books yet!)

However, I have found some little information in Brian Lavery's 'bible', 'Nelson's Navy', as to the number of servants allowed. Apparently, before 1795, an Admiral of the Fleet had fifty servants, a Vice Admiral twenty and a Rear Admiral fifteen. Only a small number of these - 16, 10, 10, respectively for each rank - were borne on the ship's books, and he was allowed to pocket the extra wages if he so wished, although I can't imagine Nelson stooping to that. Following 1795, admiral's were allowed a reduced number of servants on a fixed scale and he was compensated for the loss, thus 12 for a C-in-C, 5 for a rear admiral. These included the flag lieutenant, the secretary and his clerk. It is not certain where all these servants would have berthed, perhaps some had cabins in the wardroom or similar ones on the upper deck, but it would have taken some organisation to move them to another ship and would have involved men in various duties, in both the ship they were leaving and the ship that was receiving them. I'm not sure that any move would have been that different abroad and were probably much the same in home waters. Having said that however, and as Tony infers, this would have depended on the exigencies of the service and how quickly the Admiral needed to be in place in a fleet or ship. I can quite imagine that he might have needed to move speedily and that he may have only time to take his personal servant and secretary with him.

As to the feelings of the admiral himself, who by the way probably wouldn't have had a direct hand in the move except physically, there is quite a good reference to Nelson himself during a period in early 1801. On 1st January that year in a general promotion Nelson is made Vice Admiral of the Blue and chooses as his flagship the 'San Josef', which of course he had captured at Cape St.Vincent and where he hoists his flag on the 17th of that month. (Incidentally, he seems to have formed some attachment to this ship for her qualities and seems loath to have to leave her.)

On that day he writes to Jervis, his superior, ' My flag is up on board the San Josef, and Wednesday next I have fixed for her going to Cawsand Bay, where, as she must be two days or three, she shall be finished by the joiners, who have yet not begun my cabin; but I shall live in Hardy's...'

On the same day he writes in a footnote to a letter to Earl Spencer, 'the San Josef, as far as relates to Captain Hardy, is ready for sea, (she is sailing from Plymouth to Portsmouth) but the Dockyard have not done with her. My cabin is not finished, of course - nor even painted; but that I do not care about: I shall live in Captain Hardy's...' (workmen, apparently, were the same in the 18th/19th centuries!)

Now that he knows he is destined for the Baltic and must give up the San Josef for the shallower-draughted St George, in a letter to lady Hamilton on February 8th he writes, 'I am told the moment that the St George arrives, that I am to be tumbled out of this ship, as the Ville de Paris is going to Plymouth to be paid, and the Earl will hoist his flag here: and if I am as fortunate in getting a fresh painted cabin, (which is probable) I shall be knocked up. At all events, I shall be made very uncomfortable by this hurry.'

On 12th February he writes again to St. Vincent, 'My flag is on board the St George, but my person, owing to the heavy sea, cannot be conveyed from the San Josef...'

On the 20th he writes to the Commissioners of the Navy, 'Having hoisted my flag on board the St George, and finding her not fitted for a Flag, I request you will give the necessary directions for her being fitted as such on her arrival at Portsmouth, as she is now under weigh for that anchorage. The boats are not calculated for the service I am to be employed on. I have further to request they...' I believe he also found the St George a dirty ship.

Kester

Thank you all for the info you've come up with here. This is really most helpful and illuminating.

Kester: On 12th February he writes again to St. Vincent, 'My flag is on board the St George, but my person, owing to the heavy sea, cannot be conveyed from the San Josef...'

This brings to mind the difficulty that Nelson had, being without an arm, moving between ships, and I recall Collingwood sympathetically remarking on Nelson's particular difficulties in his correspondence.

Then there were all the agitated letters to Fanny, and later in a less strident vein to Emma, about the state of his outfit - missing and broken things - on more than one occasion.

Thanks again for this - very much appreciated.

Mira,

Glad you found my post useful; all the references of course are from Nicholas.

Nelson naturally would have found getting into a launch or other boat from his flagship doubly difficult due to his disability, but probably would have found it harder to go board another ship - the climbing up I would imagine being much harder than the climbing down, with the ship rolling and pitching and the launch heaving up and down on the swell. I don't know but, being him, he would probably have scorned the use of a bosun's chair as being undignified and unbecoming.

Being a seamen he would of course have long learned to reach for the wooden rungs up the ship's side from the launch when it reached the top of a wave (he would have been less likely to get his feet wet!) and to then move up them gradually bit by bit when the ship rolled away from him to leeward (its easier to climb when what you're climbing isn't completely verticle). It's much like climbing the rigging, where you're taught to do the same thing and always on the windward side, for the obvious safety reason that the wind is blowing you onto the rigging. Similary that may have helped him when climbing the ship's side, although I have no evidence of this.

Of course, it was very rare for there to be a flat calm, so Nelson would have been quite used to, and worked out his own way of coping, with this sort of thing. Preumably there were also various seamen and others keeping an eye on him! Having said that there must have been some sea running on 12th February 1801, thus making the passage from the San Josef to the St George impossible for him.

Congratulations on your detective work, I must buy a copy of History Today!

Kester

Mira;

these details are taken from Brian Lavery's account of Nelson's arrival in Vanguard on 29 March 1798. This was at Spithead, not in a foreign port, but you might find them useful, nonetheless:

Nelson did not bring his own cook; Anthony Leary, an Irishman from Cork, was selected from the ship's company, likewise his steward, Thomas Spencer from Nottingham.

HN joined with the wardroom officers in buying a stock of food to supplement official rations - paid his first subscription of £1/19/- per month for sugar, rice, tripe, cheeses, oysters, and topped up with tea and raisins in Gibraltar.

The stern cabin of Vanguard was 40 ft long x 30 broad and when she was re-fitted at Chatham he insisted on the open stern gallery being extended by a foot by moving the bulkhead forward and reducing the size of the cabin. He liked the privacy the stern gallery afforded.

His furniture had been sent to Chatham and Berry advised him on making his cabin more comfortable with a floor covering of kersey cloth in a black and white chequerboard pattern, but the curtains provided by Chatham Dockyard were deemed unsuitable. A carpet for the side of the cot was recommended and also a looking glass. Berry joked that curtains for the quarter galleries were 'very necessary'. One of these quarter galleries would have served as a lavatory, so privacy would be required. Lavery also points out that HN would have needed 'bedding, a table or two, several chairs and a chest with drawers.' He wrote to his wife before sailing, 'My place is tolerably comfortable, but I do not shine in servants.' This was also the occasion when he wrote crossly to Fanny about her poor packing - numbers of handkerchiefs, cravats, stocks and huchaback towels were all missing.

From 'Nelson and the Nile: the naval war against Bonaparte 1798' by Brian Lavery (Chatham Publishing, with Duckworth ISBN 1 84067 5225)

I'm terribly sorry Tycho, I had meant to come back to let you know that I'd caught up on Lavery's book on the back of your recommendation.

Thank you for typing all that up. Also to Kester - I hope you enjoyed HT.

Roger Knight also gives a good account of Nelson's journey back to sea onboard the Agamemnon in March 1793.

Another thought occurs around this topic.

Removing from the San Josef to the St. George in 1801, Kester refers to a letter to St. Vincent:



Was the practice/custom that the flag be raised when the flag officer acutally came onboard?

Would it be unusual to find the flag flying onboard the while the flag officer was actually elsewhere? For example onshore or in another ship.

Was any official procedure or ceremony performed by the officers and crew when the flag officer came onboard?

Mira,

It's difficult to be find to be sure about the actual details, but to take your points one by one, and I am to a certain extent speculating here since I can't seem to find much information:

a: 'was the practice/custom that the flag be raised when the officer actually came aboard?'

It would seem that this may have varied according to circumstances. If the flag officer came aboard from a shore boat, then his flag was probably hoisted as, or when, he came aboard; if he was transferring from one ship to another, then it seems as though two flags were used simultaneously, one being lowered from the ship he was leaving, the other being hoisted aboard the ship he is moving to. Presumably he would have been in his barge between the two ships at the time! Admittedly, this is according to my 'Admiralty Manual of Seamanship' (1972) but, the RN being traditional, I would imagine the same procedure held in the 19th Cent.

b) 'Would it be unusual to find the flag flying onboard while the flag officer was actually elsewhere? For example onshore or in another ship.'

This again probably depended on circumstances, but very likely the flag went with him if he were away for a period of time. Again, according to my Manual, an officer's flag flies continuously thoughout the period of his command, both night and day, but it doesn't say whether it was necessarily in the same ship.


c) 'Was any official procedure or ceremony performed by the officers and crew when the flag officer came aboard?'

Again according to circumstances, normally there was, the ceremony of course being to the admiral's rank not the man - although of course, where officers like Nelson were involved this was somewhat a mixed emotion! Depending on what the ship was doing, probably as many of the ships crew as could be spared from their duties would have been 'fallen in' when he arrived on board, as were the marines and ships' band, if there was one. As many officers as could be spared from their duties would have been present, but certainly the captain, first lieutenant and other officers would have been introduced at the time. He would also of course have been piped aboard, and entitled to a certain number of sideboys, according to regulation. These manned the entry gangway. Many Admirals chose to be hoisted aboard by chair, rather than use the steps up the ships side - but this probably depended on their age and abilities! Of course much of this would have been foregone, if it was neccessary for the admiral to arrive on board the flagship ship unannounced, as when Nelson joined the Victory off Cadiz just before Trafalgar.

The officer's flag was probably 'broken out' from the appropriate masthead, much like signal flags were, rather than be hoisted loose as were ensigns. The effect of this was to make it more striking and noticeable. I have seen a painting on line from the NMM, which depicts just such a flag shifting ceremony, but can't seem to find it again. However, I will keep looking.

Kester

Mira,

Fascinating stuff isn't?

One has to remember that not only one flag and one ship was involved. If an admiral of the blue was succeeding an admiral of the red (for example), all the ships in the squadron he commanded would also have simultaneously run down their red ensigns and hoisted blue ensigns in their stead!

Brian

Thanks Brian for adding that detail, you are of course quite correct.

Referring to Nelson's joining the fleet on board the Victory off Cadiz, prior to Trafalgar, he did not of course change ships, but did write of his desire for the lack of any ceremony, even to the wearing of flags by individual ships. This was naturally to keep such information as far as possible from the enemy.

In a letter to Collingwood, dated 25th September, he writes: 'I put your letters, which I know Lord Barham intended to have sent you by a Cutter from Plymouth... and I send it with the other from the Thunderer by Euryalus, who I send forward to announce my approach; and to request that if you are in sight of Cadiz, that not only no salute may take place, but also that no Colours be hoisted, for it is as well not to proclaim to the Enemy every Ship which may join the Fleet...'

As an interesting aside, and akin to Brian's mention of ships changing the colour of their ensigns, Nelson issued a general memorandum to 'The Respective Captains' on the 10th October: 'When in the presence of an Enemy, all the Ships under my command are to bear white Colours, and a Union Jack is to be suspended from the fore topgallant stay.'

In a footnote in Nicholas, the author adds the comment: 'As Lord Collingwood was a Vice Admiral of the Blue, his Division bore blue ensigns; but in consequence of this order all the fleet properly wore white ensigns in the Battle. It may be hoped that the time is not distant when the anamalous distinctions of Blue, White and Red, Admirals will be abolished, so that St George's Banner will be the only flag borne by all British Admirals, instead of its being confined, as at present, to those who are absurdly called Rear, Vice, or Admirals of the White!'

Since Nicholas' seven-volume magnum opus was published in 1846 the Royal Navy only had to wait another eighteen years for his 'hope' to come true, squadronal colours being abolished in 1864 and with the white ensign becoming the prerogative of the Royal Navy.

Kester.

Tycho, Kester and Brian - many thanks for your illuminations!

It certainly is fascinating stuff - I must admit I find the little details of duty and the minutae of these people's lives of great interest.

Working through the soon to be locked away Lieutenant's Log of the Thalia a few weeks ago, my companion and I were more taken with the childish drawings, doodles and snippets of poetry decorating the cover and corners of the log than by the vagaries of wind and weather.