Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
It is currently Thu Apr 25, 2024 2:57 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 7:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:11 pm
Posts: 1258
Location: England
I have posted a summary of the situation and some of this discussion in a new thread here: http://www.nelsonandhisworld.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=279 - for greater visibility and easier reference.

_________________
Tony


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:29 pm
Posts: 8
The mystery of the Sammy Ofer wing development is solved. It's gonna be a rock venue for heavy metal bands and their air guitar playing fans.

Quote:
Kevin Fewster: I was the inaugural director of the South Australian Maritime Museum. I had been a university academic teaching history and I was in Melbourne at Monash University in the early 80s and a job came up to be the Director of this new museum. And I had no interest in things maritime, I don't sail, I am not a good swimmer and this job came up to set up a new museum, it was part of a state sesquicentenary, 150 year celebration. And I was always interested in taking history to a broad audience rather than trying to become you know the world expert on some absolutely tiny little component of history. So I thought well I'll
throw my hat in the ring because I really liked the idea of taking on a challenge of setting up a museum that could appeal to a broad public rather than just the cognoscenti of that particular interest. It also happened that in my spare time when I was an academic, for two years in the early 80s I had, with a colleague in Melbourne run two big rock concerts. So in a sense I've got the same sort of background that you've got with your quirky things back in the UK.

Robyn Williams: Air guitars.

Kevin Fewster: Exactly.


Full interview here:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/inconversation ... 004692.htm

That's all fine and dandy, but cocking it up isn't.

I get the feeling 'Sir Les' Fewster doesn't have much time for 'core users,' 'cognocenti' or 'old Admirals' despite the mollifying words about balancing trad and modern, serious and casual needs. 'Rather than' sounds like a case of either/or - not both.

I wonder if the 'cultural involvement' with the Sydney Olympics had something to do with the appointment at the NMM? Whatever, the NMM now have their very own 'Cultural Attache' from Down Under. Dame Edna will be thrilled.

Meanwhile, we can share library space with life size robotic whales, theme park sound effects and a light show that would leave Pink Floyd in the shade. Actually, it sounds a lot of fun - a great big toy of a World Heritage Site to play with - but when visiting a library I rather enjoy a good read.

Glow in the dark plastic whales in the shop - realistic wind up swimming action - working blowhole spouts real water - just like the real thing. Or a New Age whale song cd to relax to in the bath. Woe is me - I prefer a good book there too.

Kids vomiting over the side of replica boats into the laps of their parents. It just doesn't fit does it? I'm beginning to think those archives should be elsewhere. Like now!

AC/DC anyone?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 2:04 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 33
Location: Oxford
For quite a few years now the NMM has not been the most accessible of places for serious naval and maritime history researchers, unless one is part of the very small clique who seem to get access, grant funding and publication. No matter how competent they may be, there are many others who just don't seem to have access. In the last couple of years, choosing a trendy PC research topic, particularly couched in terms easily understood by children with 30 second attention spans, might just get new blood into the charmed circle. Proper research into primary sources, with a rigorous, well-written analysis of "conventional" topics just don't seem to be acceptable these days.

The current issue with the Caird Library is perhaps the most obvious, visible and potentially permanently dangerous of such problems. The more I think about it, the more anxious I am. In effect, for the next four years (do we believe that all the archives will be fully available before the b****y Olympic Games closes access to the Museum and resources for several months in 2012?), researchers will have very limited access to a part of the archives, and no access at all to the most important - that is, manuscript documents not available anywhere else and of significant importance to primary research.

Putting personalities to one side, this is a derogation of duty on behalf of the Board and a flagrant abuse of public funds by the management.

Unfortunately, the general public just doesn't give a damn about maritime history, until of course their holiday cruises get cancelled because of piracy, or their pathetic consumer goods increase in price because maritime trade is disrupted.

I research and teach naval history and my students, mainly from the US, all mature and very knowledgable, one or two "old admirals" amongst them, appreciate that a proper study of history is about the future. Maritime history is about the future of our maritime planet.

I doubt if it will do any good at all, but we need to join our voices with those organisations who are beginning to shout about this, from the Naval Dockyards Society to the BNRA and the 1805 Club.

I am really beginning to see red about this.

Justin
in very cold Oxford beginning to feel the pinch

_________________
[color=#0000FF][b]Justin Reay FSA FRHistS
Naval and Maritime Art Historian[/b][/color]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:57 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 2830
Location: mid-Wales
I have tried to maintain a calm and balanced voice in the midst of the understandable anger and passion that concern over the future of the Caird Library has generated.

However, in view of the opinions expressed in the link given in fengshu's post, I have to say that I am filled with despair and dismay about the future of the NMM as a resource centre for serious academic research.

It seems that ‘an interest in maritime history’ is no longer an essential requirement for the oversight of the greatest repository of maritime history in the world.

It astounds me that researchers with a serious interest in the archive material are dismissed as ‘old admirals’.

It appals me that the policy now seems to be directed towards engaging a wider audience rather than – oh boy, mark that – rather than serving the needs of the ‘cognoscenti’.

Nothing wrong with engaging a wider audience – but all broadening and dissemination of knowledge has to be rooted in a deep love and understanding of the subject, OK – let’s be brave and use those dirty words ‘academic excellence’ - not in some superficial ‘marketing’ ploys to bring in the crowds.

Go to the Globe theatre and watch the entranced faces of youngsters of all races from some of the poorest and toughest parts of London and see them them respond to the magic of Shakespeare – not adulterated, not dumbed down, not simplified or gussied up – but presented by actors and directors who have a deep and scholarly knowledge of the plays and love them with a passion and devotion that sends their young audiences home starry-eyed. I know from experience that for some of them, it is life-changing.

That’s what is needed at the NMM, too. If you are going to enthuse your visitors who have just ‘dropped in’, engage your school parties who may have been dragged there unwillingly, interpret our naval history to all-comers in a way that will not only instruct but inspire, you cannot do this without a sound foundation of scholarship, enthusiasm and devotion.

The NMM is a centre of excellence for maritime historians from all over the world. Their scholarship is the essential underpinning of the museum. It is extremely disturbing that serious researchers seem to be regarded as some sort of undesirable accretion, as troublesome as they are unnecessary, a hindrance to the ‘real’ function of the museum instead of its lifeblood. To deny and degrade the value of scholarship in this way is profoundly depressing, not only because it demeans scholars and researchers themselves, but because it cheats the casual visitors too. To embrace the superficially meretricious and the intellectually reductive, is to hand out candyfloss and call it nourishment.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 3:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:11 pm
Posts: 1258
Location: England
One way of engaging a wider audience is to facilitate the necessary research undertaken by historians and authors writing books that appeal to that wider audience. Titles such as 'Jack Tar' and 'The Audacious Admiral Cochrane' or 'Cochrane in the Pacific' spring to mind.

I fully concur with Justin's suggestion that we should 'join our voices with those organisations who are beginning to shout about this' and I hope that my summary of the issues in the other thread here: http://www.nelsonandhisworld.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=279 might be useful for that purpose. If others think it might, then it will be helpful if you can voice your support (or constructive criticism) on that thread too, while the wider debate continues here.

_________________
Tony


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 33
Location: Oxford
Tony makes a good point about making naval history more appealing by packaging (titles etc) which catch the imagination of the greater audience outside our niche. To an extent, content needs to follow suit, but I have been criticised by one of my peer reviewers recently for using the old historians' ploy (Arthur Bryant for example) of wrapping historical detail within a story - in my specific case by including a short semi-fictional vignette at the head of each chapter. Bryant is a jolly good read, and to a very large extent historically accurate, with analysis which still stands up today. It's such a pity that he doesn't reference anything!

In respect of the NMM, some of my Oxford colleagues complain that even having snappy titles for exhibitions is itself the thin end of the dumbing-down wedge, but as a former marketing man in another life, I know that we do need to capture a wider audience. "Old admirals", in my experience, are not put off, rather the opposite. It is the middle-aged, middle-rank, middling-minded history professionals who are so arrogant and narrow-minded as to think that the only valid history is yards of tables amongst ditchwater-dull analytical narrative heavily pock-marked with footnotes.

Providing the content is well researched, properly referenced and its analysis well-argued, the writing itself should at the very least be interesting. Our special interest, after all, is one of the most exciting subjects.

Justin
in cold Oxford watching the students pack up for vacation

_________________
[color=#0000FF][b]Justin Reay FSA FRHistS
Naval and Maritime Art Historian[/b][/color]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Since these absorbing threads, regarding the changes to the Caird Library, the construction of the new Sammy Ofur Wing and the impact it will have on serious researchers, have started on this forum I have become not a little depressed about the future of the NMM and where it is going. I am sure I am not alone. It is sad, no, criminal, that this should be happening to what for many of us is, and still could be, the best maritime museum in the world, with regard to its vast, important and priceless collections, its knowledgeable staff and, not least, its marvellous buildings.

I have had had no reason, like many on this on this site, to use the library - except to enquire about illustrations for a recent article, actually for the Nelson Dispatch, only to be told the cost of their reproduction, which I feel disinclined to pay. My view of the museum therefore and to digress somewhat, comes purely from a visitor's standpoint - in my case a visitor who has visited the museum on numerous occasions over the years, from approximately the early seventies and who worked there briefly, and naturally in a very minor position, during one summer in the mid-seventies. I now live in Sweden, so consequently I don't get to the Museum often these days and have not been there since the Nelson and Napolean exhibition in 2005. I have a life-membership of what was known as the the Friends, but am now referred to as a Founder Member - although I don't quite see any advantage. Consequently I receive much information about the museum through newsletters, Yearbooks etc.

I have to say that, during my acquaintance with the NMM and from my perspective, I believe that the standard of the Mueum has become worse in many respects, although not all. I thought, for example, that the glassing over of the Neptune Hall was very worthwhile and sensible, but am rather less taken by the use to which it is put and the way in which many of the exhibits are displayed. Noticeable amongst these must be the stern of the old 'Implacable', ex. 'Duguay Troin'. I believe it was Frank Carr who had the idea of mounting it on a wall, as now, but with the vision of re-constructing more of the stern and the great cabin within, so that visitors could enter it and see what such a great cabin would have been like. Whatever happened to his vision? I can't but feel that a great opportunity was missed here - but it could be resurrected, if the wish were there, and how much more interesting that would make it. As it is now it looks just what it is, just fixed to the wall and with no real thought behind it. I also miss the old barge hall, dark, with Prince Frederick's barge lit by strategic internal lighting - magic, and so much better than the present position she is in.

Educationally I though that the small cinemas that were in one section, each with a short well thought-out film about one topic, be it life aboard ship, gunnery, signalling, etc, very worth while and surrounding the large waterline model of the 74 gun 'Cornwallis' (remember her?) under sail. I thought she provided a good visual idea to the layman, not only children, of how these ships looked at sea. The last I saw of her she had been shunted into a corner and I don't believe anything has replaced her. It also made sense to rationalise the number of models on display, giving a far better idea of the types of vessels used and the Ship of War gallery has much to commend it. The main problem here is that it is, or was, sighted right next to the children's (them again) play area, thus making it rather taxing if one was trying to take in the detailed text about ship construction!

I suppose one of the main things that I was sad about were the alterations to the main staircase. I know this was to accomodate a lift, but I wonder that this could not have been accommodated elsewhere. The staircase was constructed I believe from the timbers of four old warships, and complete with a ship's belfry containing the bell from, I think, Nelson's 'Vanguard'. It had a wonderful tone and since the staff struck it throughout the day, naturally using ship's time, it created a real nautical atmosphere which could be heard over much of the museum.

At the end of this long digression, for me 'atmosphere' is the important word and I believe the NMM has lost it, in many senses. For me, the best years were during the seventies and eighties, when the Museum exhibits were not 'dumbed down' for children, who somehow probably understood it anyway, short but adequate texts were provided for those who didn't wish to read the full one provided, and the shop was a joy to be in and where the main problem seemed to be which of the many quality maritime books should one buy! I shall of course continue to visit when I can, but the NMM for me is not the place it used to be, and it is obviously becoming so from the researchers point of view. I just hope that Frank Carr and James Caird are not spinning in their graves, and I wonder what Basil Greenhill makes of it all!

_________________
Kester.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: NMM to host new 2010 Greenwich Horse Trials
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:14 pm
Posts: 2
In the press this morning:

Britain’s National Maritime Museum announced today that it is to host the new 2010 Greenwich Horse Trials. A Museum spokesman explained: “This is a key initiative in our strategy to attract a wider audience, and will serve as an important dry run for our hosting the Equestrian Events of the 2012 Olympic Games. A great deal of management time has gone into planning this new event which maps directly onto the DCMS core objective of increasing and broadening the impact of culture and sport. Given the magnificent effort so far from all our staff, I am confident the event will be a great success.”

The event is part of the Museum’s “New Directions” programme, which aims to widen the Museum’s appeal and help it to counter the accusations of elitism and exclusivity that arise from concentrating solely on maritime history. The spokesman commented further: “We have to get away from our traditional audience of cognoscenti and old admirals, but we are reaching the limit on the number of school parties that we can attract in any one year.”

The project manager for the event also explained more of the rationale behind the planned date of the 21st October 2010: “The event fits in well with our building programme as we have planned the schedule to provide temporary stabling for the event. We will be launching a major new recycling initiative and will be providing bedding for the horses, made of shredded paper. Material up to the mid-nineteenth century is ideal for this, as it has no acid content. Some of this material is accessed as little as once a year, and we are pleased to be able to put it to good use.” The spokesman also explained that when the new wing opens in 2012, some rationalisation of the collections will be needed in order to accommodate the new collection of life-size inflatable whales.

Museum Trustee Alan Titmarsh confirmed that the Board of Trustees is 100% behind the event, adding that “the manure will do wonders for the flower gardens in Greenwich Park”.

The event also marks a belated recognition of the important part that horses have played in Britain’s naval history. There are two incidents in Lord Nelson’s own career that are frequently ignored. The first was at the Battle of Cape St Vincent, when he overcame the difference in size between his ship and the Spanish San Josef by leaping the gap on horseback. The second was on his appointment to the Channel command in 1801. When he learned that Buonaparte was ready to invade from Boulogne, frustrated that his own ship was not ready, Nelson rode his horse Bronte straight into the sea at Deal with the reins between his teeth, brandishing his sword above his head, and uttering the immortal words “Let me at ‘em”.

It is believed that the Museum’s initiative is welcomed by the founder of ‘Nelson and His World’, who has a particular interest in Nelson’s horses.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 33
Location: Oxford
My apoplexy on reading the first paragraph turned to wry smiles and then relaxed laughter. You brightened my day - well done! Mind you, my heart skipped a beat at the mere hint of shredding documents - there are people here who would shred the Bodleian's collections without turning a hair!

Justin
in sunny, chilly Oxford wondering whether the NMM Board hoped the Olympics people were talking about sea-horses

_________________
[color=#0000FF][b]Justin Reay FSA FRHistS
Naval and Maritime Art Historian[/b][/color]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 1:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:11 pm
Posts: 1258
Location: England
Woland, please reassure me that not even the first paragrah is true - it's all too plausible!

_________________
Tony


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:37 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Woland,

Welcome to the forum. Well, you certainly had me off to a good start and it was not until I was almost lining up for the final fence, and probably leading the field at that stage, that I had to rein in before I made a hash of the whole thing and poles went flying. I mean, Nelson on a horse, aboard the Captain - jumping to across to the San Joseph!

Erm, sorry for the above, - it's just that I'm getting into training ready for the equestrian events at Greenwich in 2012. I can't wait, can you! Mucking-out anyone?

_________________
Kester.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 128 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by p h p B B © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 p h p B B Group