Nelson & His World

I wonder if anyone has come across examples of men switching from the Navy into the Marines, or can suggest the possible reasons for doing so?

One of Captain Charles Mansfield's many brothers (George) advanced to Midshipman in 1775 in his early career, but I then next find him in 1777 as a Lieutenant of Marines in the Foudroyant under Captain Jervis (who had two years earlier promoted Charles from AB to midshipman). Lieut Mansfield of the Marines was busy, with the help of the country gentlemen of Hellston, rounding up the officers and crew of the American rebel privateer mentioned in the other thread. He was later Lieutenant of Marines in the Apollo, and praised by Edward Pellew for his part in the action in which their Captain was killed and Pellew earned his promotion to Commander.

I imagine George must have switched to the Marines because he was having difficulty getting promotion to Lieutenant in the Navy, or perhaps even in finding a ship at all. I think other examples I have come across have been in the opposite direction. Maybe his mathematics wasn't up to scratch for navigation!

I speak with no authority here, but a little Googling has thrown up Julian Thompson's history of the Royal Marines [The Royal Marines: from soldiers to special service, Macmillan 2001] which suggests that your idea that George might have been seeking better career prospects is more than probable.

To précis: in the eighteenth century, the highest rank a marine officer could hope for, at sea, was captain, possibly major. Ashore, his chances were much improved within his division, where a colonelcy might materialise, and in late Victorian times, even the rank of Brigadier-General.

Tony, Tycho,

On the face of it however, and according to Lavery's 'Nelson's Navy', it would seem difficult to see why a naval officer would want to switch to the marines, certainly at lieutenant level - unless he had his eye on the higher ranks and would have to put up with being a lieutenant to get there. I don't have the figures, but it would seem as though a marine lieutenant's pay was equivalent of that of a warrant officer in the navy and he had the social standing to match, although he had a commission. Admiralty Regulations would seem to have recognised this problem, saying that whilst he was on duty he was to be accorded the same status as any other commissioned officer.

However that in itself would probably not have made the problem go away, as the marines to a certain extent were always looked upon as inferior by the ship's company, even though they were certainly an effective force in action. Perhaps the reason, as Thompson implies, was that marines had more continuous employment and improved prospects when they returned ashore, although advancement appears to have been slow. According to Lavery, marine captains commanded marine detachments on board ships of fifty guns or more, were equivalent of naval lieutenants in rank as they were also in respect of prize money. Marine first lieutenants commanded detachments on frigates, but apparently lowly second lieutenants were not allowed command of detachments at all since, according to regulations, if a detachment were not thought worthy of a first lieutenant, these were to be commanded by a sergeant!

True, marines had more impressive uniforms, but surely that would not have been much of an inducement to 'change sides' as it were?