Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Rear Admiral Samuel Sutton
PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:04 am 
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Many forum members will be aware that I have been pursuing, fruitlessly, an image of Captain Samuel Sutton, who commanded the Alcmene at Copenhagen, was a friend of Nelson's and briefly captain of Victory. There is a good deal of genealogical information here:

http://surreygenealogist.com/sgprojectsutton.htm

but a search through every known archive, gallery, museum etc. has produced no picture. I am in touch with a collateral descendant of Sam's who lives in New Zealand. She hopes to visit the UK soon and I have invited her to visit us. Sam's sword and letters are still in the family, but they have no image either and have been unable to locate his burial place. I had a letter from the current owners of Ditchingham Lodge whose ancestors bought the house from Sam shortly before he died, and who think he moved away.

However, a local historian in Scarborough, Yorkshire, where Sam was born, has discovered that the house in which he was born still stands, and that the man who lived there in 1929 had a portrait of Charlotte, Sam's wife.

If anyone has any information about him, and especially any ideas where I might find an image, I should be pleased to know. My interest arose because I have a letter written by Emma to Sam, and addressed to him, in Nelson's hand, HMS Amazon, Deal. The letter promises a comment 'tomorrow' from Nelson on the subject of the decision not to award medals for Copenhagen. Nelson was convinced that St Vincent had assured him that they would be, and on discovering that this was not the case, his fury and agitation were extreme.

As to the elusive picture - it seems very strange that an officer in Nelson's confidence - he was invited to Merton - and briefly captain of Victory should not have an image of him retained in some publicly accessible place.

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Last edited by tycho on Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2009 10:02 am 
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I was delighted to hear from a descendant of Sam Sutton in New Zealand, with whom I am in touch. She has discovered via the record office in Lowestoft that Sam died 'at Mr Rose's (Surgeon) on 9th June 1832 and is buried in the churchyard of St Mary's Church in Woodbridge, Suffolk.

Another piece of the jigsaw!

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Last edited by tycho on Tue May 26, 2009 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:48 pm 
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Hello Anna,
Did he end up as a Rear-Admiral? I have located a will in the National Archives in Online Document Prob 11/1808 of a Rear Admiral Samuel Sutton of Ditchingham, Norfolk dated 1832.
Given that he died in Lowestoft, this will maybe your man. The will could be of interest in trying to start a search for a portrait or image.

Regards'

Stephen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Yes, that's my man! In fact, I am in contact with a genealogist who is very interested in Sutton and who referred me to this site that has a lot of information about him.

http://surreygenealogist.com/sgprojectsutton.htm

I've only just found out where he is buried. But I'm ready to give up on finding an image of him. I've searched every museum, art gallery and archive I can think of, with no luck. In fact, his descendants don't have one of him either. As said, it's a real mystery. Here's a man who was a distinguished officer, highly thought of by Nelson. and whose descendants have treasured his letters and his sword - but no picture!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 17, 2009 2:51 pm 
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Hi Anna,
Regarding an image of Samuel Sutton, I don't know if this will be of help,but try looking into the work of Samuel Shelley (1750-1808) who was a specialist in miniature portraits. I know he painted a miniature of Captain Edward Riou of the Amazon which was at Copenhagen, he may well have painted other Captains at the time. There are a number of specialist galleries in London who's interest are Miniatures so try there.
Regarding Sutton's burial location I can confirm that his date of death was May 1832 and the burial was at St Mary's Church, Woodbridge, Suffolk.

Stephen


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 9:00 am 
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Hi Stephen,

Shelley sounds like a good line to follow. Thanks for the tip.

A.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:23 am 
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Hi Anna,
You may like to know that I have posted a request for any image or portrait that may be around through the 1805 Club.
You may be interested to know the fate of HMS Alcmene, she was lost in April 1809 whilst in persuit of a French Vessel under the Command of a Captain Tremlett and in the company of HMS Amelia.
She struck a reef at the mouth of the Loire off Nantes. The guns were thrown overboard so as to lighten the ship, but she bilged at low water in four fathoms and was burnt by the crew so as to avoid falling into enemy hands. It would appear that the crew of two hundred and fifty four were all saved. :)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:32 pm 
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Many thanks indeed, once more, for your help.

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Anna


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 7:03 pm 
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Mark will, I hope, be able to post two pictures on this thread soon. They were given to me by a descendant of Samuel Sutton who dropped in to have tea with us on Sunday on her tour of the UK from her home in New Zealand.

The flag in the pictures is from a collection in the family including Sam's sword, letters etc. He was a Rear Admiral of the Red. Could this flag be his Admiral's flag or is it something else? It is interesting to see how it has been pieced together from separate strips of fabric.

During her visit, she has gleaned some interesting pieces of information from the various record offices in East Anglia. Sam is, apparently, buried under the organ in the church of St Mary the Virgin, Woodbridge, Suffolk, though there is no memorial plaque in the church. Sam sold Ditchingham Lodge (see picture) not long before he died.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/221984

Soon afterwards, he bought commissions in the army for his sons. We speculated that he sold up to facilitate this - though it is only speculation. He sold the house for £2200. Does anyone know how much a commission cost?

But still NO PICTURE OF SAM!

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Last edited by tycho on Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:09 pm 
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First image - another to follow.

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:37 am 
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Second image - as promised.

Image

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:21 pm 
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Anna,

I doubt that this is Sam Sutton's Rear Admiral's flag, since both the red and the blue flags of that rank would have had either just a plain red or blue field, until both flags disappeared with the abolition of squadronal colours in 1864. I suggest however that it may possibly have been the ensign of Sam's last ship, although it does seem rather small. Any idea of the size?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:05 am 
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Thanks for that pointer, Kester. No idea of the size of the flag but I will ask G. next time I email her. She did say that as children they used to play with it and run along the hall at her grandfather's house, so maybe it is not all that big.

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 Post subject: Re: Samuel Sutton
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 4:07 pm 
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tycho wrote:
Yes, that's my man! In fact, I am in contact with a genealogist who is very interested in Sutton and who referred me to this site that has a lot of information about him.

http://surreygenealogist.com/sgprojectsutton.htm

I've only just found out where he is buried. But I'm ready to give up on finding an image of him. I've searched every museum, art gallery and archive I can think of, with no luck. In fact, his descendants don't have one of him either. As said, it's a real mystery. Here's a man who was a distinguished officer, highly thought of by Nelson. and whose descendants have treasured his letters and his sword - but no picture!


Hi Anna:
I've only just come across your messages, as I am researching Rear Admiral Samuel sutton, but more particularly his wife, Charlotte (nee Ives), of Bungay.
Both were buried at St Mary's Church, Woodbridge, he in 1832 and she joined him in 1852. Frustratingly, the church saw fit to build its new organ in the north porch, over the tomb, in 1875, so oblitering any record of its inscription. The Victorians have a lot to answer for!
I read that you were asking somewhere about how Sutton coud afford to buy commissions in the army for his three sons. It was almost certainly because he profitted significantly from the bounty of three Spanish ships he was instrumental in capturing - even at that time the total amounted to £1 million, and his share would have been substantial.
I have been unable to trace a picture of him, but I am more interested of a portrait of Charlotte - you mentioned one existed in Scarborough in 1929 at Sutton's birthplace. Do you have any more info on that? I am writing an historial novel based on the actual love affair between Charlotte and the great French writer and statemen, Vicomte Francois-Rene
de Chateaubriand, who stayed in Bungay with the Ives family while an emigre in England, and following a fall from a horse.
If you could steer me towards a portrait of Cahrlotte, I would be most grateful.

Terry


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 Post subject: Re: Rear Admiral Samuel Sutton
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Many thanks for your post and information, Terry, and welcome to the forum.

The only additional information I have about Charlotte's picture came from Sam Sutton's descendant with whom I am in contact. She had been given a parish newsletter of 1968 which mentioned that the portrait was in the possession of a Mr Richard Haggard in 1929. The Haggards were a well known Ditchingham family - one of their members was the writer Rider Haggard; so the portrait was not, as I had first assumed, in Sam's hometown of Scarborough.

http://www.literarynorfolk.co.uk/ditchingham.htm

I don't know whether it would be possible to find out any more information using this slight lead - but do keep us informed if you manage to find out more.

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