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| Freemasonry in Nelson's Navy - A Heap of questions. http://www.nelsonandhisworld.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=610 |
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| Author: | Ned [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Freemasonry in Nelson's Navy - A Heap of questions. |
Hello all, In my research on one of Nelson's captains, some friends have urged on me exploring for traces of freemasonry. As I completely lack experience in questions concerning freemasonry, especially with regard to freemasonry in England, I have a heap of questions, to which any hint or indication towards sources, books, archives or documents would be a great help for me. Did freemasonry have a major impact on the Royal Naval Officers in Nelson's time? Have there been any prominent members? Are there any reliable numbers/percentages on freemasons within the Royal Navy's officer corps available? Would Naval Officers have gathered in genuinely "Naval" lodges? My basic reasons for putting these questions would be to find out to what extent freemasonry might have influenced patronage systems. Or has it always remained seperated from professional performance and advancement? Second aspect would be whether freemasonry might have in any way influenced attitudes towards (professional) education or dedication of a naval officer in Nelson's time. Do you know of any typical indications (e. g. standard phrases in journals or correspondence) hinting at the author's being a free mason? Or might there even be "member lists" of lodges available? Thank you very much for your time and any help, which are both most appreciated |
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| Author: | tycho [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:05 pm ] |
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Ned: the Freemasons were a very private organisation until recently, when they have become far more open. The following link to the Grand Lodge in Britain, which has a library and an extensive archive, offers to answer questions about the history of Freemasonry. Maybe they can help with specific answers. http://www.ugle.org.uk/ |
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| Author: | tycho [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
During the Trafalgar bicentenary celebrations in 2005, an article was published claiming, without firm evidence, that Nelson was a freemason. It might make interesting peripheral reading. http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-15/p-07.php |
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| Author: | Ned [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:11 pm ] |
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Anna Thank you very much for these two links. With regard to the article in the second link: I think it is most remarkable that on the silver medal depicting "a host of masonic symbols", the Navy's fouled anchor also appears without any further comment. Might the proper symbol for the Navy be also a masonic symbol or is this only an additional symbol linking the mariner Nelson to freemasonry by combining symbols? |
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| Author: | Mark Barrett [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:22 pm ] |
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Ned About 10 years ago a guy named John Webb published a little book entitled: Horatio Admiral Lord Nelson: Was He A Freemason? It's not that brilliant a book - but it might be worth you getting a copy. There is currently one for sale on ABE Books - http://www.abebooks.co.uk/ for about £1.50 plus post & packing. Sorry I don't have time to enter a lengthy debate but my own conclusion is that Nelson was indeed a member of a Norfolk Lodge - but more of an "honorary" than an active member. In JW's book there is an interesting picture of an officer's chest with masonic symbols draw/painted inside. So it seems it may have been quite normal for naval officers to be Freemasons. The order of Nelsonic Crimson Oaks which is mentioned in the article in Anna's post gets a lot of people confused - especially the fact that the medal they had struck has masonic symbols on it. I may know as much about this little organisation as anyone since it was based around the area where I live (West Midlands) and I have kept any little mentions I have found about it. It was as they say a "benevolent society" - taking contributions from members and paying out small amounts in the event of sickness and/or death. I don't believe it had any connection with the navy. It certainly had no connection with Nelson - they seem to have just selected him as a sort of heroic figurehead. And it was not a Masonic Order as such - more "quasi-masonic" with the use of similar symbols etc. etc. One thing I have never got my head round is the quality of this medal they had struck - bearing in mind that the total membership only seems to have been in the low hundreds. I did try to follow up on the artist once but never really saw it through to a conclusion. Hope some of this helps. MB |
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| Author: | Tony [ Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
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Ned wrote: My basic reasons for putting these questions would be to find out to what extent freemasonry might have influenced patronage systems. Or has it always remained seperated from professional performance and advancement?
My guess is that the influence (if any) of freemasonry on patronage would have been small, simply because all the other influences on patronage were so great. It would also probably be indistinguishable from any other form of 'interest'. I think it would not matter whether your 'friend' exercising influence or patronage on your behalf had been acquired through your vote, your brother's vote, your wife's family, a loan, your own professional connections, or your own personal connections. I imagine a friend acquired at a masonic lodge would just be another personal connection. According to Martyn Downer in 'Nelson's Purse', Nelson was a member of a quasi-masonic friendly society in Norwich, the 'Ancient Order of Gregorians', the evidence being his letter acknowledging his election. Alexander Davison, Nelson's prize agent, was a freemason, and other prominent freemasons mentioned by Downer are Sir Ralph Abercrombie, Lord Moira, Sir John Borlase Warren, and Henry Dundas. Downer makes much of masonic iconography used in designs for Davison's Nile medal, but those were Davison's ideas, not Nelson's. |
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