Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Friendly Fire
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 1:01 pm 
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We touched on the subject of friendly fire in the 'Whose Band of Brothers?' thread, and I am wondering how frequently this occurred? In a battle where the two fleets maintained their respective lines of battle, there would be no cause for it, but in a more confused action at close quarters, I suspect it may not have been unusual. I imagine that most instances would be omitted from official dispatches, even if recognised as such, and that ships logs would usually detail the damage, but not the cause. I did recently came across an account of an instance in the Battle of Grenada in 1779 in which the Sultan received two shots from another (unidentified) English ship which killed two men and wounded seven in the main top.

Can anyone quote more examples?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:22 pm 
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Tony,

I would think the instances of 'friendly fire', as we now call it, are as old as armed conflict itself. The fact that this is not often mentioned at sea, or very likely on land for that matter, in 'our' period, is probably because it would have given a bad impression to anyone reading the official dispatch and also make commanders look as though they were incompetent!

As you imply, it would be sensible to examine those battles in which the manouvers performed might have brought about 'friendly fire' incidents. At the Nile of course the British ships 'doubled' the French. The British ships were to anchor on the bow and stern of their adversaries, to reduce just this possibility, but as we know some ships didn't anchor in the place designated and thus might have come under fire from the guns of their own side. Although I don't have any examples to hand, I seem to remember that there were some complaints subsequently of ships being fired on, by others in the fleet.

Kester


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:22 am 
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A particular case of "friendly fire" at sea occured in March 1814 when HM sloop Primrose encountered the packet ship Duke of Marlborough off Cape Finiisterre; it was dusk and neither ship could make the others ensigns or heard the shouted challenges made and so each assumed the other to be an enemy, probably American. As the night closed in an engagement ensued between the pair, which resulted in the packet ship being left in a shattered condition. Only when the firing ceased and shouted hails between the pair understood did they realise that they were not enemies. Although badly damaged, it was fortunate that only one man was killed onboard the packet (an army officer taking passage).

Captain Phillott of the Primrose was subsequently court-martialled in April 1814 on a charge of negligence. he was cleared of the charge but "admonished to be more circumspect in future".


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:16 am 
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This is not quite a story of friendly fire, but it could have been, so I hope it counts.

I mentioned James Scott's 'Recollections of Naval Life' on the 'Oaths' thread. He also quotes an incident of 'almost friendly fire' while he was cruising off Martinique in 1809 in the Pompee (Capt. Cockburn) and came across two frigates. Pompee hoisted private signals but got no reply so it was assumed they were enemy ships. In this instance, Pompee did not fire, which was fortunate as the frigates were the British Cleopatra and a French prize, the Topaze.

It was discovered afterwards why the Pompee got no reply to her signal.

Captain Pechell of the Cleopatra had mislaid the private signals. he'd been looking at them in his cot and instead of putting them back in the box when he'd finished, he stuck them under his pillow. He forgot to take them out in the morning and they were lashed up with his cot. Then, when he needed to refer to them, he couldn't remember what had happened to them....


Last edited by tycho on Sun May 11, 2008 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 10:28 pm 
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Thank you all for your replies. I suspect that Captain Pechell of the Cleopatra may not have recorded those precise circumstances in his own log, but Captain Phillott of the Primrose had no chance of covering things up!

I suppose another variation on the theme is firing on your own ships after they have been captured by the enemy. Dumanoir came in for a lot of criticism for this after Trafalgar, having killed and wounded some of the crew when he hit some of the French and Spanish prizes while firing at the Victory and Temeraire.

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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 7:20 pm 
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Tony:

I am just re-reading Andrew Lambert's book, 'Nelson: Britannia's God of War' (Faber, 2004) and was reminded that Nelson signalled before the Nile for 'each ship to place four lanterns in a vertical alignment on the mizzen mast to avoid friendly fire after dark.'

Was this a customary practice, or an inspiration of Nelson's on that occasion?


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PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2008 2:53 pm 
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I don't suppose that four lanterns vertically arranged on the mizen mast was a standard identification, but lanterns in various configurations were used for signalling at night, so I imagine this was a normal precaution.

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 Post subject: Parsons' account of friendly fire
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 8:22 am 
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Here is another account of friendly fire to be found in ‘Nelsonian Reminiscences’ by Lieut. G S Parsons:

Parsons is officer of the watch:

The frigate was standing out from the sandy coast of the Great Desert, with a top-gallant breeze, the night serene and dark, the heat intense. After hitting my shins several times against the carronades, the slide of one looked so inviting that I sat down, but it was only to be a minute. Take care, said Caution; life, honour and property are in your charge. Only for a minute, and the words were on my lips as I dropped into a deep sleep, too deep even to dream of the happy home of my childhood. The shrill and sharp whistle of a shot, and the violent flapping of the mizzen-staysail, through which it had passed, made me sufficiently aware of the horrors of my situation, heightened by the cry of alarm from the lookout men (who had followed their officer’s example) that a ship of war on our weather-quarter was bearing up (for the purpose of raking us), and under our stern she passed, with her battle-lights fully displayed, while a stout voice bellowed through a trumpet: ‘What ship is that?’

The captain, undressed, was on deck in time to answer, ‘His Majesty’s frigate ‘El Carmen.’

‘Who commands her?’ responded the voice.

‘Captain William Selby, who is answering you.’

‘This is His Majesty’s ship ‘Pique’, said the commodore; and my private signals being unanswered for two hours, I took you for an enemy’s frigate, escaped out of Alexandria. The last shot was directed at you, and I sincerely hope it has done no harm’.

‘Nothing further than the loss of the mizzen-staysail,’ replied Captain Selby.

‘Very well; thank God,’ said the commodore, ‘that I did not fire my broadside into your stern, as I was on the eve of doing. Captain Selby, put the officer of your watch in close arrest.’


The penalty for sleeping on watch was death, as Parsons knew. That penalty was not exacted; but he was still haunted by the memory ‘although thirty-nine years have whitened my then auburn locks.’

Query: the ‘Pique’ has her ‘battle-lights’ fully displayed. The term ‘battle-lights’ is self-explanatory but can anyone add a little more? How would another ship recognise them as ‘battle-lights’? Colour(s)? Configuration?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:35 pm 
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I'm not sure whether these ‘battle-lights’ refer to signal lights or to lights below deck needed to operate the guns in the dark. He may be referring to the fact that the ship was close enough for him see these lights through the open gun ports, confirming that they were ready to fire a broadside.

Don't know - any other opinions?

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 10:52 pm 
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I came across this letter for sale when browsing dealers' websites. It concerns an incident recorded in January 1805 regarding 'the Bacchante's firing into the ship Britannia.' However, since the shots were fired because the Master was 'irritated', it is more a case of 'unfriendly fire', I think.


DACRES‚ Vice-Admiral James Richard. 10751

Letter Signed‚ to Vice Admiral Sir John Duckworth‚ reporting the conclusions of his investigation “into the unfortunate circumstances arising from the Bacchante’s firing into the Ship Britannia as stated in a letter from the Master of the Ship...” 2 pp. 13 x 8 inches‚ integral blank leaf docketed on verso‚ some very light foxing only‚ in good condition. H.M.Ship Theseus‚ Port Royal Harbour‚ Jamaica‚ 10 January 1805. Vice-Admiral James Richard Dacres (1749-1810) commanded the Carleton schooner in the action on Lake Champlain in 1776‚ and after a distinguished career was appointed Commander in Chief on the Jamaica station. “It appears that the said Master acted with great Impropriety‚ determin’d Obstinacy‚ and wanton Opposition to the several Signals made by His Majesty’s Ship Bacchante‚ the said Master having in his possession the regular Printed Convoy Instructions‚ which were perfectly explanatory of the Signals made by Captn. Dashwood‚ who after having directed three Shot to be fired near the Britannia (the Sagesse and Convoy in sight to Windward) without being attended to‚ and a strong current the running to Leward‚ and having every reason to believe the Britannia was the same Ship seen the Evening before‚ with a strong breeze blowing from the Westward‚ only under her Topsails‚ -and at the time the Signals were made lying too - his Jibbs and Staysail traced up & down the Stays‚ -he was so irritated as to direct the Gunner of the Bacchante to fire at the Ship so scandalously negligent of Signals...”

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