Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Disordered
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:27 am 
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I am trying to trace the letter in which St Vincent makes the comment that Nelson's 'ships are always in the most dreadful disorder'.

I don't recall any other reference to Nelson's inefficiency in this area by anyone else, and it does seem out of character for a man who was active, zealous and a stickler for detail and discipline.

Was it a fair judgement, I wonder?


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:19 pm 
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Tycho, I cannot answer your question but I remember a letter Nelson wrote saying that he noticed there appeared to be some slackness on the ships, but he expected Collingwood would be able to put things back in order soon again.
That letter was in one of the Nicolas editions, but I cannot remember which one.
So, at one point Nelson noticed disorder himself too.

Sylvia


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Tycho, St Vincent's letter was the same letter in which he predicted much brouillerie over Lady Hamilton after their homecoming in 1800:

The Naval Miscellany - Vol 2, edited by John K. Laughton, Navy Records Society (vol 40), 1912 (& 2004 reprint)
p329

St Vincent to Nepean
Tor Abbey, 9th November 1800
My dear Nepean,
It is evident from Lord Nelson's letter to you on his landing, that he is doubtful of the propriety of his conduct. I have no doubt he is pledged to getting Lady H. received at St. James's and everywhere, and that he will get into much brouillerie about it. Troubridge says Lord Spencer talks of putting him in a two deck ship. If he does, he must give him a separate command, for he cannot bear confinement to any object; he is a partisan; his ship always in the most dreadful disorder, and never can become an officer fit to be placed where I am.
We have experienced a tremendous gale of wind...


I think I remember reading somewhere that Hardy agreed with the view that his ship was always in disorder - which seems strange!

Hi, Sylvia

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 Post subject: Hmm.
PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:36 pm 
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I respectfully suggest that this comment may contain a touch of the green eyed monster, for I fail to see that if HN was as loved and respected as he was by his men, that they wouldn't do all they could for him willlingly,
( which would include keeping his ships "ship shape and bristol fashion)and he DID get results, even with ( or in spite of )a "disordely ship!Perhaps "relaxed" rather than "disorderly" might be a more appropriate adjective, for St Vincent and Hardy, in particular were known to be "Quarterdeck martinets"-tay

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Hello all - to old friends, and I hope, many new iones!! Great to be on board, and congratulations to all involved with what will be , I know, a great, lively new site, and as they say, " God bless all who sail in her! - tay


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:19 am 
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Thank you, everyone, for comments and the reference. I was reminded of St. V's comment when it was mentioned in a book I was reading recently, 'Nelson's Wife' by E.M. Keate (a descendant of Fanny and Josiah, and, collaterally, of Keate, one of the medical men who attended Nelson ashore after the amputation of his arm.)

It appears that St. V.'s comments were made at a time when Nelson's private life was causing him much disgust. He apparently didn't want him as his second in command of the Channel Fleet, an appointment which the Admiralty seemed minded to make. Keate has a footnote saying, 'this seems to be the first and last time that such a thing was suggested of a ship under Nelson's command. It was not in such terms that St Vincent wrote to Nelson himself.' Not true, apparently! It would be interesting to track down other references.

Evelyn Berckman also mentions St. V.'s comment in her biography of him, 'Nelson's Dear Lord'.

It was, she remarks, 'Unfair of St Vincent, for he knew this to be only half the reality. Perhaps it was true that Nelson was indulgent to his men [was it? He was fair, but certainly strict] and that they might be remiss in some formal points of discipline, but when it came to the pinch - and the pinch was the day of battle - they fought for him like demons, and surely St Vincent knew, none better, that this was the discipline to ensure which all other disciplines were invented.'


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