Nelson & His World

I am trying to remember where I read an account of Blackwood trying to persuade Nelson to fly his flag from Euryaylis at Trafalgar rather than expose himself to the full broadsides of the combined fleet (and the huge risk of being hit )as Victory broke the line. Nelson of course refused.I wonder whether this is where the idea that Nelson deliberately chose to remain on Victory came from, in that he was actively seeking his own death? I believe this idea may have started with an interpretation of Nelson's famous comment as Blackwood returned to his Frigate before Trafalgar of " Goodbye, Blackwood, I shall never speak to you again" Was this interpreted as Nelson's "suicide note"? I myself don't hold this view, but what do others think? - tay

This is a subject that is raised again and again and one that fascinates me. In the aftermath of Nelson's death, I wonder if, in their shock and grief, his companions did not have false recollections (I don't mean they were deliberately lying). The comment to Blackwood, for example: could he have simply misheard? Could Nelson have said, 'Goodbye, Blackwood, I shall not see you again [before the battle?]' Of course, all officers knew that they might die and prepared their minds accordingly, but it would have been madness, and contrary to all Nelson's notions of leadership to undermine morale by suggesting that his end was nigh, even if he believed it was. Even if Nelson wanted to die (unlikely), I think we can be pretty certain he didn't want to lose. His whole focus would have been to keep up everyone's spirits.

Also, there's the suggestion that he courted death by displaying all his medals and that his chaplain, Alexander Scott, had tried to persuade him to change his coat and Nelson had said it was 'too late to be changing coats'. I wonder if this wasn't an imagined scenario. After all, what would he have changed into? Nelson had a full dress coat on which were displayed all his decorations. His other coats (including the one he was wearing when he was shot) had his decorations embroidered on them in gold thread. He didn't have a coat without decorations. Moreover, in the smoke and confusion of battle, and on a heaving ship, would it have been that easy for a marksman to target him deliberately? I believe he was killed by a ricochet bullet anyway. Pure chance.

This must surely be one of the old chewy subjects over which many beards have been pulled, many breasts beaten and many hours spent.

Was the bullet a clever and careful aim or was it a wild shot through the smoke in the heat of the moment to where someone would likely be? And "Who *was* that masked man?". Whether it was the reputed sharpshooter or A N Other is something we shall never know for certain.

There is the school of thought that Nelson, knowing the sight of his second eye was failing, felt it better to go out in a blaze of glory than be land-bound and fading into obscurity - but I'm sure that had he felt that way then he's have engineered a more certain way of meeting his maker. And the tale of the fortune teller? Well, I've been told many a-thing by palm readers but I'm still here and have yet to meet my dark haired prince on a white charger or find a fortune though a mysterious inheritance.

I prefer to think of it at fate. What will be will be. Life in the fast lane. Take your chances and dance with Lady Luck.

On the other hand ........?

Please excuse the the length of this, parts have been reproduced in the past, but I can't recall seeing another of Nelson's 'I shall see you no more' comments before.

Hope it's worth the read.

The excerpt is from:

The Life and Correspondence of the Right Honourable Henry Addington, First Viscount Sidmouth' Vol II, by George Pellew. 1847.

In addition, both volumes contain super material on the political ramifications surrounding the Copenhagen campaign, and some fine letters and reflections on the friendship - predating 1797 - between Nelson and Addington.


"... To the foot of this note Lord Sidmouth has appended
the following words:—"Lord Nelson came on
that day, and passed some hours at Richmond Park.
This was our last meeting."

His Lordship was accustomed
in after years to relate to his friends the
interesting particulars of this interview. Amongst
other things, Lord Nelson explained to him with his
finger, on the little study table, the manner in which,
should he be so fortunate as to meet the combined
fleets, he purposed to attack them. " Rodney," he
said, " broke the line in one point; I will break it in
two. There," he said to Miss Halsted, whose pen has
recorded the anecdote, " there is the table on which
he drew the plan of the battle of Trafalgar but five
weeks before his death. It is strange that I should
have used this valued relic for above thirty years,
without having once thought of recording upon it a
fact so interesting. Now," pointing to a brass plate
inserted in the centre of the table,

" I have perpetuated it by this brief record: —

"'On the 10th day of September, 1805, Vice Admiral
Lord Viscount Nelson described to Lord Sidmouth, upon
this table, the manner in which he intended to engage the
combined fleets of France and Spain, which he expected
shortly to meet. " '

He stated, that he should attack them in two lines, led
by himself and Admiral Collingwood; and felt confident that
he should capture either 'their van and centre or their centre
and rear. This he successfully effected, on the 21st of
October following, in the glorious battle of Trafalgar.'

Lord Nelson then asked Lord Sidmouth to hold his
proxy in parliament; but the latter declined, observing that
he might sometimes be compelled to oppose the government,
which Lord Nelson, as an officer acting under them, had
better not do. In reply, his Lordship mentioned the names
of some peers who had applied for it; and added, that if
Lord Sidmouth would not take it, he should not give it to
any one else; and he did not." (Notes by Sir H. Russell, Bart.)

At the close of the conversation, he said to the present
Viscount Sidmouth, then a youth, ' Now, boy, man the boat!'
alluding to his chaise which was in waiting. Just as he was
entering it, Lord Ellenborough drove up. ' You must return
for a few minutes,' said Lord Sidmouth, ' and speak to Lord
Ellenborough.' The minutes proved an hour, at the end of
which Lord Nelson proceeded to town.

Alighting in Bond Street, he there met Mr. Sullivan:
' I have passed a couple of hours,' said he,
'with Lord Sidmouth; but I shall never see him again;
I have looked upon him for the last time.'"

(From Miss C. A. Halsted's Recollections of Conversations at
Richmond Park in 1840.)

The intelligence which informed Lord Sidmouth of
the fulfilment of the above prophetic expression was
communicated to him by Lord Hawkesbury in the
following note, dated November the 6th: — "

My dear Lord, "
I cannot resist the pleasure of informing you of the most
glorious naval victory that ever was gained. On the 21st of
October, Nelson engaged the combined fleet off Cadiz. He
had twenty-seven sail; they had thirty-three: nineteen are
taken, and one blown up; but, alas! pot>r Nelson is slain.
Villeneuve is taken prisoner. "
Yours, HAWKESBURY."

In enclosing the above note to his brother, Lord
Sidmouth observed, " I cannot so dishonour Nelson
as to weep over him. He has left a name the most
splendid in our annals." Writing on the same subject,
a few days afterwards, to Mr. Bathurst, he said, " Of
my friend Nelson, whom I truly loved and honoured,
I can only say, ' Felix vitae charitate ; felix opportuni-
tate mortis.' He has fallen as he must himself have
wished. His loss I have not yet brought myself sufficiently
to lament. On the contrary, I exult in the
blaze of his descending glory, and in the conviction,
that the sentiments, which not only his services, but
the mode and 'opportunitas' of his death have excited,
will for ever constitute a part of our strength."

This makes me wonder what other examples exist that illustrate Nelson's fatalistic (though I don't believe suicidal) approach to the risks of war and his own mortality.

PS: It's really lovely to see so many correspondents and friends from the past here. Long may it continue, and a big well done to 'The Management.'

Mira (aka: Jacqui)

What an interesting comment, Mira, and one I have never come across before.

I am also trying to remember a hazy recollection of Nelson settling his accounts with various tradesmen prior to Trafalgar in case he should be killed. He also quoted the gypsy's warning he had had years before that he would not survive beyond 1805. So, as you say, perhaps resigned to 'intimations of immortality' rather than suicidal might best describe his frame of mind.

He seemed genuinely not to fear death and his remark to his brother that death in battle would be his preferred way to die is well-known.

He seemed amazingly prepared for wounds and injury too. In a letter to his wife just after he lost his arm he begs her not to be anxious: 'My mind has long been made up to such an event'.

I actually believe that, quite simply, that Nelson had a premonition that he would die at Trafalgar and that attempts by others to explain it away by some other means, has not only clouded the issue for later historians but is also quite false.

This has happened with other incidents connected with him at Trafalgar, eg. the wording of his signal, some insisting that he meant to say 'Nelson' confides and not 'England' (but which has since had scorn poured on it by naval historians) and the persistant notion that he said 'Kismet Hardy', as he lay dying on the Victory's orlop, which again has had a similar reception. The word 'kismet' is, as I believe has been said, Turkish for 'fate'- so it would seem that some would have us believe that Nelson suddenly turned into a Turkish scholar nearing his demise! Both these examples are of long standing, and it is perhaps thought especially that the latter was substituted by the Victorians, since they couldn't accept that a man would ask another to kiss him, even though he was dying!

As regards the words Nelson spoke to Blackwood, on the latter's leaving for the 'Eurayalus', I think it is generally accepted that Nelson said 'Goodbye Blackwood, I shall never speak to you again.' As with his final words, this must have been overheard by others nearby and so have received added authenticity. I think these words were the clincher for me that Nelson had a premonition of his own death, over and above the way the battle was fought, which has been considered by some as reckless. I think perhaps that he may have had such thoughts for some time previously and Tycho mentions the gypsy's warning, which may also have had an effect on him.

Before the battle, he had also settled his affairs at home more thoroughly than he had before, including providing for Fanny and Emma and that touching gift of a cup for Horatia. We should also not forget one of his last letters was to tell her that he was her father. I cannot think that all these things were unconnected.

This way of thinking does not mean that he was contemplating suicide, which I do not think crossed his mind. As has been said, Nelson believed that if it happened, then it happened. Being the son of a parson, brought up in the protestant religion and throughout his life promoting its precepts, surely he could not think otherwise.

Blackwood's account makes it clear he felt there was no room for misunderstanding:
"He then again desired me to go away; and as we were standing on the front of the poop, I took his hand, and said, 'I trust, my Lord, that on mv return to the Victory, which will be as soon as possible, I shall find your Lordship well, and in possession of twenty Prizes.' On which he made this reply, ' God bless you, Blackwood, I shall never speak to you again'.'"

But is it fair to ask how many times in Nelson's life he told people he would not see them again? It has been said that he had a premonition of death before all his battles, but I don't know how true that might be, or what the evidence is. What he wrote to St Vincent before Copenhagen certainly had St Vincent pleading with him not to do anything rash, despite what else St Vincent may have thought of him at the time. But given his preferred tactic of a close pell mell battle, anyone on the quarterdeck faced a very significant chance of getting killed, and Nelson was by no means the only man to die on Victory's quarterdeck at Trafalgar. These premonitions of death are perhaps a perfectly rational appraisal of the risks he faced, and a wish to make peace with his maker. Throughout his career, Nelson always felt his services were not sufficiently recognised, and another take is that perhaps farewells such as these were designed to get others to understand his situation. (Although this hardly applies in Blackwood's case.)

There must always be some doubt over others' recollections, but there is less doubt over Nelson's own words and actions. Before the battle he started a letter to Emma which he left unfinished. I have seen it said that leaving a letter unfinished before battle was a sailor's superstition to ensure survival to finish the letter afterwards. Has anyone else come across that? (I know it was also common to leave a letter unfinished until a ship was ready to take it.) But in the letter, Nelson expresses a clear hope that he will survive:
"My dearest beloved Emma, the dear friend of my
bosom. The signal has been made that the Enemy's
Combined Fleet are coming out of Port. We have
very little wind, so that I have no hopes of seeing them
before to-morrow. May the God of Battles crown my
endeavours with success; at all events, I will take care
that my name shall ever be most dear to you and
Horatia, both of whom I love as much as my own life.
And as my last writing before the Battle will be to you,
sо I hope in God that I shall live to finish my letter
after the Battle..."

Turning to Nelson's actions, after Blackwood not surprisingly failed to persuade him to direct the battle from the Euryalus, he then attempted to persuade Nelson not to lead the line (which was indeed unusual for a commander in chief):

"After much conversation, in which I ventured to give it as the joint
opinion of Captain Hardy and myself, how advantageous it would
be to the Fleet for his Lordship to keep as long as possible out of
the Battle, he at length consented to allow the Temeraire which was
then sailing abreast of the Victory, to go a-head, and hailed Captain
Harvey to say such were his intentions, if the Temeraire could pass
the Victory. Captain Harvey being rather out of hail, his Lordship
sent me to communicate his wishes, which I did; when, on returning
to the Victory, I found him doing all he could to increase rather
than diminish sail, so that the Temeraire could not pass the Victory:
consequently when they came within gun-shot of the Enemy, Captain
Harvey, finding his efforts ineffectual, was obliged to take his
station astern of the Admiral."

The Temeraire was subsequently expressly ordered by signal to take her station astern of the Victory.

His other actions at Trafalgar do raise questions for me. I don't place any importance on his refusal to transfer to the Euryalus, or the coat he wore, but his departures from his own battle plan are significant. His plan to break the enemy line in two places was designed to cut off and concentrate force on part of the enemy fleet, temporarily outnumbering and defeating that part before taking on the rest. To achieve the concentration of force, Nelson had to keep his ships close after each other in each of his two lines. Instead, he seems to have indulged in a race (at snail's pace in the light wind) to the enemy line with Collingwood, who also refused to allow the Mars to go ahead of him. As a result both lines became very strung out, and as a result, instead of concentrating force on the enemy, the first ships to reach the line were unsupported for a long time and were themselves heavily outnumbered. This does seem to me to be recklessness in throwing away one of the main advantages that his own battle plan gave him. The leading ships, including the Victory, must have suffered heavier casualties as a result, and the ships at the rear of the line arrived so late that they were only lightly engaged (apart from the Minotaur and Spartiate which took on Dumanoir's squadron which was then returning towards the battle).

So what were his motives? It was not a "do or die" attempt against unassailable odds. He was confident of victory, and wanted the best victory he could achieve. He wanted to annihilate the enemy fleet, and expressly wished for 20 prizes. So why depart from his own plan and recklessly throw the Victory into such an exposed situation?

Another 'final' letter penned to Emma is partially quoted in Jack Russell's Nelson & The Hamiltons. The sign-off is the most relevant to this thread and runs like this:



This is dated 21st March, 1801.

Beside this, the Trafalgar letter quoted above by Tony looks positively jolly.

I'm not at all sure whether Nelson approached Trafalgar with any more morbidity than he usually did on going into battle.

The first letter he wrote to Emma after surviving Copenhagen displays a kind of pleasant surprise that he's still around and in one piece. 'Not a scratch.'

There seem to be two opposing constants for Nelson in action: that he would always win, and that he could very well die in the process.

Having said that, he seemed to be man of great faith, both in his God and his luck.

I'd guess that he had great self-reliance, trusted his feelings and instincts to a very great degree, rather than worry about what others would think or do in the same situation.

He did seem to be superstitious. I've read that he hated to sail on a Friday as it was an unlucky day. He attached meaning to his dreams, carried lucky charms, imbued the pictures he had of Emma with a kind of divine power, he refers to providence and dame fortune repeatedly.

The impact of the gypsy tale told to Kitty, if true, could have stuck in a mind like Nelson's, whereas many would have dismissed it and forgotten about it years before.

The white bird story was told (presumably by Emma) to Harrison, and does fit in with the other superstitious, fatalistic beliefs and routines HN appeared to follow.

Emma did tell Bess Foster, when Bess asked directly whether Nelson had had a premontion of his death, that he hadn't until he was actually leaving the house and came back for the last time. She didn't elaborate further, but that was on Friday 13th September 1805.

How fate and superstition tie in with his piety, within the strict lines of his faith, I don't know. It all seems to be mixed together and may be how he reconciled his relationship with Emma a 'pure and innocent' and the ending of his marriage as permissable.

How he lived his life and jusified his actions to himself whether at sea or on shore.

That's one of the fun things about Nelson. He keeps you guessing.

I understand that prior to Trafalgar, HN also paid a visit to Peddisons of the Strand and viewed his coffin, stating that he would have need of it soon, and the only thing left to be done was to inscibe his nameplate with the date .Perhaps he did have a premonition of his death after all-t

This is a great thread.

Sorry I'm so late in coming to it. but I've been thinking about the question for some time now.

I don't really believe that Nelson courted suicide -any more than any of the other captains that saw heavy action at Trafalgar did- but he did know that there was a probably better than fair chance that he would be killed.

Remember: captains of the day stood tall on the quarterdeck as inspiration to their crews, much as generals did on land. If a captain was bold enough to stand tall with his number one uniform on during battle, it certainly would have the effect of galvanizing the men around him.

There have been numerous cases of captains being killed or seriously wounded:

George Duff, aboard the Mars at Trafalgar

John Cooke, aboard the Bellerophon, also at Trafalgar, who, when told by a lieutenant that he was an easy target because he forgot to take his epaulettes off said: "It is too late to take them off. I see my situation, but will die like a man."

Robert Manners, aboard the Resolution, at The Battle of the Saints -didn't die in action, but eventually succumbed to the greivous wounds incurred whilst standing on the quarterdeck

And the list goes on and on.

I don't really buy into the idea of Nelson 'wanting to die.' I'm of the opinion that he loved his wife and daughter too much, as well as the adulation heaped upon him from the English society -remember: he was quite vain.
However, I do feel that he wasn't afraid of death. He, like most others of the time, believed that he would be going to heaven.

I suppose we'll never know for sure, but after much thought, I'm of the opinion that Nelson's death was more of a consequence of the world that he helped create and perpetuate than anything else.

In addition to what I have already written on this thread, I just wonder how many of the ships captains had on full dress uniform?

My guess is not many, if any at all, it usually being kept for going ashore, divisions etc. Every day working dress for an officer at sea would have been his second best, the undress uniform, and I see no reason why an officer should change into his dress uniform just to fight a battle. It was the man the men respected, not the uniform. It would also have been rather more cumbersome, with all that gold braid and there certainly would have been the chance that it became soiled and otherwise damaged. We have to remember too that it would have been quite expensive, so why put it at needless risk? There was also the incident where Collingwood advised one of his officers to take off his boots and replace them with breeches and stockings, because 'they are so much more maneagable for the surgeon,' so presumably the same went for uniforms.

We know that Nelson wore his undress uniform, as he habitually did at sea. True, the coat had epaulettes as did the dress one, but the rest was quite plain. Of course, the decorations that he wore were only facsimiles, not the real ones, and he had several sets of them made. Because of this it is perhaps doubtful that he would have presented such a target as has often been supposed, in that regard. There might even be some truth in the theory that the French marksmen were not specifically aiming at Nelson himself, but at the deck in general since they knew Nelson would have been stationed there, the theory being that if all the men were killed, Nelson was sure to be among them!

Kester