Nelson & His World

I am reading ‘Young Nelsons’ by D.A.B.Ronald. In it he suggests that Nelson took William Hoste on board the Agamemnon in spite of the recommendation by Thomas Coke of Holkham Hall, rather than because of it, and that the decision to take Hoste was a difficult one. As Coke was a prominent Whig and the local MP, Ronald suggests that ‘Nelson would have looked askance at the origins of this patronage’ and that ‘what convinced Nelson to take William Hoste is anyone’s guess; pragmatism in the face of a common enemy, political expediency; a rapport with the boy’s likable father, or a keen eye for the boy’s officer potential?’

I find this hard to credit. While Nelson disliked Coke’s politics, and may have had little contact with him, surely Nelson would never have even dreamed of snubbing the most important landowner in the neighbourhood by ignoring his recommendations? Wouldn't he more likely have been happy to oblige him?

Nelson took on at least two others of Coke’s recommendations: Weatherhead, and later, Meek. Also later Fanny was a guest at Holkham Hall on more than one occasion in Nelson’s absence.

Ronald also describes Nelson in the sitting room at the parsonage deciding who to take on by interviewing ‘the young gentlemen presenting themselves one after the other for an interview with Captain Nelson’. Surely this was no selection process, but simply courtesy meetings to confirm arrangements with the ‘young gentlemen’ and their fathers? Would he have invited a boy and his father to a personal meeting at the parsonage only to insult the father by refusing to take his son?

Tony,

I would agree with you on all counts and on the face of it, these would seem rather strange assertions to make. I have actually be reading a review of this book, with perhaps a view to purchasing it, but if the rest is in the same vane, then perhaps I should save my money.

I wouldn't have thought that Nelson would feel antagonism towards Thomas Coke just because of his politics. He was surely too pragmatic for that.

And I don't think Nelson was by any means a "stranger" at Holkham.

2 thoughts come immediately to mind. i.e. I have a notion that there is a chair at Holkham (not in the public area) that they call the Nelson chair - because Nelson apparently sat on it during one of his visits.

And I am sure also that Nelson's name occurs at least once in the "game book" at Holkham. Which means that on at least one occasion he joined a shooting party there.

I should know better than to write these things without checking my facts first - but I will try to do so later and either confirm or revise!!

MB

Tom Pocock has a little to say about the Nelson-Coke relationship in his biography of William Hoste, 'Remember Nelson'. The two were vaguely acquainted but not on intimate terms during Nelson's spell 'on the beach'; and it is true that each had different political sentiments. However, Pocock comments that, by the time Nelson was recalled to sea, 'events in the world and the county had brought them, or, rather, their attitudes together. Coke...may have deplored the talk of war with Revolutionary France while Captain Nelson hoped for it, not only because it would give him employment but because he never forgot that his mother had 'hated the French'. However, when the security of the stable English society they both revered was threatened, both men could show a fierce patriotism.'

Once Nelson had received his command, he 'found that news of [this] had spread and that country gentlemen - Coke among them - were seeking his favour hoping that he would take some promising lad to sea as a captain's servant.'

It would appear that Nelson and Coke, while not antagonistic to each other, were simply courteous neighbours who didn't have all that much in common. Nelson, I think, would have been pleased at the status his new command gave him, and would have taken pleasure in enhancing his prestige by doing favours for grander neighbours.

Incidentally, Pocock notes that his father had planned for many years to send William to sea, and to that end had managed to have his name entered on the books of the 'Europa' as a captain's servant when he was five years old. I wonder if the name of the obliging captain could be discovered?

Thanks all for your comments. According to Nicholas Tracy, 'Who's Who in Nelson's Navy', it was Admiral [then captain] Hotham.

Mark, I'm not sure that all the claims of Nelson connections at Holkham Hall stand up to scrutiny, including the anecdote that Nelson was such a dangerous shot that he wasn't invited shooting a second time (Roger Knight states there was no evidence he was ever invited amd that the earliest gun book only dates from 1793). I have the impression that although Nelson had been useful in providing places for friends' sons, Coke suddenly became much more interested in courting the Nelsons' company after St Vincent, and especially after the Nile, but of course Nelson was absent most of the time. I believe Nelson visited at least once in the early years, and Fanny at least twice more. In letters Nelson certainly asked Hoste's father to pass on his regards to Coke. In earlier days, the Nelsons did decline an invitation from Coke to a celebration of the anniversary of the 1688 revolution (William & Mary) because of its political connotations. What's more, they declined without providing any polite excuse, which may have been a bit pointed.

Kester, I'm only a quarter way through the book, but am not too impressed so far.

Tony

I believe Nelson had to go to Holkham/Coke to make his declaration for half pay.

This information is in a book entitled Coke of Norfolk and his Friends published in 1908.

(I have seen a suggestion that he then had to make repeat visits. A bit like signing on for his Jobseeker's Allowance I suppose!)

There is also mention in the 1908 book of the Nelson Chair.

And a facsimile of Fanny Nelson's reply re the 1788 invitation.

And even the suggestion that Nelson went to Holkham to take part in hare coursing.

I can't say the latter is true but it does explain why I had it in my head that Nelson made regular visits Holkham.

(As an aside there is apparently a room at Holkham that is called Nelson's Room. Not that he was directly associated with that room, but it contains many items of Nelson memorabilia, including a Hoppner portrait.)

To check my comment about the Game books I had to go to "A Journey Round Nelson's Norfolk" by Bob Brister. Apparently the old Game books are still there at Holkham and have 2 entries for Sir Horatio Nelson as follows:

3rd November 1797 6 Partridges 2 Pheasants 1 Hare

12th November 1797 4 Partridges 2 Pheasants 2 Hares

From the dates it seems that this Game was not shot by Nelson but merely sent to him as gifts. I haven't checked out Nelson's whereabouts at this time to see if it makes sense.

Meanwhile, it's getting very late in the day now so I hope this post is not too garbled. But may throw a bit more light on Nelson's connection with Holkham and Thomas Coke.

MB

P.S. There is other mention of William Hoste in the Coke of Norfolk book. You can check it out for yourself on http://www.archive.org.

Given those dates, having discussed Nelson’s one-armed fishing, it looks like we may be getting on to his prowess at one-armed shooting! Perhaps this accounts for his reputation as a dangerous shot! Or perhaps I will go with your explanation of the game being gifts – Sugden also says that Coke sent gifts of game to Nelson’s father. I suppose Roger Knight’s comments referred to the period on shore up till 1793.

Sugden specifically say that Lady Walpole introduced Nelson to Coke at Wolterton. He also says that Coke visited the parsonage in 1791, and that Nelson ‘must certainly have visited so important a neighbour’, but evidently has not identified a specific occasion. I do remember reading elsewhere that Coke’s signature is on Nelson’s pay records.

Yes - Nelson was of course in England in November 1797 so the notion that this Game was sent to him as a gift makes perfect sense.

I also picked up a little snippet from Clarke & M'Arthur. They say that when Nelson was "on the beach" -


The thing that comes out of all of this is that there is absolutely no evidence of any antagonism between Nelson and Coke.

So I would say that in the "Young Nelsons" book the truth has definitely been embellished.

As a final aside - I wonder how many of you have been to Holkham. What a stunning and fabulous place!

You drive along the North Norfolk coast road. If you look out to sea the next stop is the Arctic Circle. And you suddenly come across this wonderful paladian mansion which is Holkham Hall.

Maybe just the mood I was in but I found it breathtaking!



MB

I'm almost tempted to say, how many other living creatures (shooters, beaters, servants, etc), did the one-armed marksman also nearly bag! Seriously though, I would have thought that Nelson was, at that date, still suffering from the loss of his arm and thus perhaps would not have been in a position to take part. It would seem even more likely then that the above were gifts.