Nelson & His World

Mark,

Perhaps I shouldn't say anything regarding the mast colour – lest 'recent research' suggests the masts were pink! – and I do meant that exclamation mark.

However, I think it safe (?) to say it/was generally excepted the lower masts were painted 'mast colour', seemingly a yellowish buff. I am sure there were differences between ships however, to a greater or lesser extent. As I mentioned, I think the iron mast bands were originally black, but painted over on Nelson's orders just before Trafalgar.

Don't these newspaper articles sensationalising everything, just make you want to cringe. Strange, but isn't a 'pale rust colour' something like she is painted now?

The Mail gets quite a bit of stick for its right wing political stance. But I do find recently that it's getting more silly and sensationalist.

Having said that I read the other day that it is the most visited newspaper website in the whole world.

If correct that is quite some claim.

An good article regarding naval painting covering that period was written by Ray Trochim.
I still believe the captain had the main say on colour schemes, (even at his own cost).
Newspapers in general are a dying art, yes i agree 'The Mail' is becoming 'silly' but it does not care as long it sells.
The supreme example is 'The Sun' a tory rag bar non.
David.


a wondering now- Lundy Island in the Bristol channel was used on occasions as a base for Corsair pirates, 'loosely' under the sultan in power.

Mark,

I presume you didn't read that in the Mail, or did you...

Marzy,

I agree with you, in that I think a ship's captain probably had the final say about the actual colours used in his ship, albeit there was a 'directive' from above.

Btw, I visited Lundy many years ago, actually on a sailing ship, and it would probably have made a good HQ for such an enterprise. I have heard this story too, and it seems likely there may be some truth in it.

Codrington recorded that in the days before the battle of Trafalgar, the captains were so keen to please Nelson that 26 of them repainted their ships in his preferred colour.

If, to quote Michael Crick-Smith, the Victory's appearance is "largely an early 20th Century invention", how does he explain Turner's painting of Victory at Trafalgar, completed in 1822, just 17 years after the battle? The paint jobs of then and now look pretty similar to me.

Ray

Kester, Nice one. But it does seem to be true. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16746785 I have noticed when people comment on articles that there seem to be a lot from the U.S. They seem to have taken to it over there. That will be lots of Americans learning about Nelson for the first time then. Well the DM's version anyway.

Thanks Tony

I hate posting something and then starting to doubt whether if I have muddled two things together.

Cheers

Mark

In Victory's 1801-03 refit at Chatham, she was painted in black with yellow bands along the gunports, but with the gunport lids a uniform yellow with the rest of the band. This of course produced a chequerboard effect when the gunports were open. The outside of the gunport lids were painted black at a later date, but I haven't seen a date quoted for this. Painting the outside of the gunport lids black was of no help to recognition in battle, as the outside of the lids cannot be seen with the gunports open. In 'The Fighting Temeraire', Sam Willis suggests that the purpose of black gunport lids was to give the appearance from a distance that the gunports were open, 'reflecting an aggressive mindset', as I think Marzy suggested previously.

Hello,
Yes i read the 'mailesque' article on line, can be read with a pinch of salt i feel?
Its interesting you mentioning more US folks are reading this now, its amazing how 'their' point of view comes across.
Thats what they do, they change history to suit, Hollywood been the supreme example.
Its because they are now world 'top dogs' simple as that.
Im quite sure Nelson would of 'shelled' anyone who got in his way, i mean ANYONE.
I once read an article by Buckminster Fuller who said in those days sea captains had so much power they practically 'ran' the country from the quarter deck so to speak.
Turner masterpiece is 'fancyfull' I'm sure the powers that be were consulted before the paint box was opened.

Marzy.

I think the yellow in Turner's painting does look somewhat paler and less orange than Victory's present yellow/orange/ochre, and someone who has seen the actual paint layer samples from Victory has specifically commented that the original colour is similar to the paler yellows visible in Turner's painting. But I think Michael Crick-Smith is also referring to Victory's internal appearance.

Aye lad it does.

Seems i trust the Guardian more than the Mail on this.

I wish I had more time to spend on this, but I took a quick look in Kenneth Fenwick's book about Victory which was published in the 1950s.

He says that the other ships in the Mediterranean fleet were generally all painted in the "Nelson colours" when Nelson rejoined them in the lead up to Trafalgar. They had been told not to give him a gun salute on his arrival so Fenwick says it acted like a "silent salute". A bit of literary license there I'm sure - but a nice sentiment.

He says later in the book that all the British ships in the great naval review of 1814 were painted with the Nelson chequer at the request of the Duke of Clarence who was of course a friend/colleague of Nelson. Then in December 1815 it became the uniform style for the whole navy.

BUT shortly after 1815 the yellow strakes were changed to white, and so remained to the last days of wooden warships.

There is a more balanced piece in the Portsmouth News in which Andrew Baines, the project director for HMS Victory, says:
Full article here: http://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/defenc ... -1-5951194
(It does of course contain one obligatory howler: "HMS Victory has been painted in her current colours for hundreds of years, although time may have varied the hues slightly".