Nelson & His World

Hi EMP,
A History of the British Armyin Malta 1800, then there is 31st August 1801?

Apologies Stephen, these are separate references; one pertaining to Pigot and one to Abercromby.

I need some online help/leads from my now N&HW family, trying to trace:
1. The Captain(s) and whereabouts of 4th rate HMS Preston between Feb 1774 and May 1776.
I have Alexander Ball and Cuthbert Collingwood as Midshipmen possibly under the command of Vice-Admiral Graves.
2. The Captain(s) and whereabouts of 3rd rate HMS Egmont between May 1776 and 27 July 1778.
I have Dec 1777 Patrolling Home waters hunting American Privateers and 27 July 1778 Battle of Ushant also there are the names of Capts. Elphinston(e) and Allen mentioned.

Thanking all in anticipation.
Ed

Ball was promoted to Lieutenant at the age of 22 and served on HMS Atlantis (19) up until 1780. Regarding HMS Egmont I think it was operating on the North American Station at the time you mention

Edward,

You may find this reference at the National Archives,Kew of interest, HMS Egmont 26260

Ed, the Preston was indeed the flagship of Samuel Graves at Boston in 1774 & 1775 (including the time of the Battle of Bunker Hill, where Collingwood distinguished himself and was promoted Lieutenant). Her captain then was John Robinson.

The Egmont was in the Channel fleet and present at the King's review of the fleet at Spithead in May 1778, and her captain was indeed J Elphinstone. He was superceded by John Carter Allen who was captain on 12 June 1778 when she sailed from St Helen's with Keppel's fleet, and took part in the battle of Ushant in July.

Prior to your period of interest, the Egmont was at Spithead in July 1775. I think she may perhaps have been a guard-ship there.

I don't think there were any 74-gun ships on the American station until Byron's fleet was sent out in 1778.

Hi Stephen and Tony,
Thanks for that information.
Thought you might like to see a copy of Ball's Passing Out(?) certificate 6th Aug 1778 before he joined the Atlanta as a Lieutenant on the 7th of Aug 1778 until the May of 1780.

Question: Can I submit a PDF image as an attachment?
and how can I get a line above my signature or does that signify Rank!!

Ed

Hi Ed, thanks for showing us that. Have you figured out dates for the other ships?

Yes, you can add a PDF as an attachment, but I think it will show as a link to a file to be downloaded, rather than display 'inline' in the post. And no, a line above the signature is nothing to do with rank! If you set up a signature in the User Control Panel, it will automatically show on every post, and it will put a line above it. To set one up in the User Control Panel (link at top right of screen), select 'profile' and then select 'edit signature'.

Actually it looks as though the Egmont, along with the Royal Oak and Worcester, were ordered to Boston with Samuel Graves in the Preston in March 1774. But when he sailed in April, I think only the Preston went. The Egmont went on a cruise in the Channel with a squadron from Plymouth. The Preston arrived at Boston around 30 June 1774, and Graves was later reinforced with the Boyne (70), Asia (64) and Somerset (64)

There's some more intersting stuff at the National Archives. Elphinston(e) seems to have got into a bit of bother at Lisbon at the start of 1778:
There is also more about cruising off Oporto and Lisbon, and about convoy duty, from November 1777, which is probably what you already have:

Hi Tony,
All of a sudden I am working on 4 different Ball fronts at the same time!
If you can open this PDF it may answer one of your questions and you are very welcome to fill in some of the blanks.

PS the page is my own design so I accept comments on errors

Thanks Tony for those very interesting items, they have now been attached to my archive. In fact thanks to all at N&HW.
In spite of amassing hundreds of pages on this subject I feel as if I’ve just been scratching the surface, especially of Alexander Ball’s early naval life. The rest of the Ball family take up an amazing amount of my life and AJB has to take second place from time to time.

My apologies for breaking in here, but I thought it the most appropriate place for mentioning that my wife and I are off to Malta tomorrow, for a few days. I'm sure there'll be lots to see and do, and of course I shall make a point of perhaps seeing Ball's tomb and certainly the memorial.

I am hoping to meet up with Stephen at some stage!

Bon trip Kester.
There is a lot of restoration work going on, especially at the entrance to Valletta also a lot of activity around Ball's tomb. Hope you do meet up with Stephen with all his invaluable knowledge. May I suggest that after visiting the Malta Maritime Museum at Vittoriosa, a boat trip around the harbours.

Looking at Ball's passing certificate and dates of service, it is interesting that there are 13 months per year, according to the Admiralty, who used lunar months of 28 days each. It means you can add up columns of years, months, weeks and days and actually get an exact result, but it had me scratching my head the first time I tried to add up a record of service! It looks like your dates do take that into account, Ed.

Well, we had a really good few days in Malta, taking in many of the sites (although not all - well, we do have to go back!) including the Grand Master's Palace, the Cathedral, the Maritime Museum – and Ball's Monument and tomb. I thought the monument magnificent, but the latter not quite so much!

We eventually met up with Stephen on the last day (he was nothing like I had imagined!) and he managed to get us into Fort St. Elmo, where he showed us the tombs of both Ball and Abercrombie (they being not so far apart) and explaining to the workmen why we were there (I think they were a bit mystified!). The tombs certainly are in a bad state, although it was good to see some repair work to the fort proceeding and in fact to many of the other fortifications in Valletta. (I honestly don't envy the Maltese the big job they have in the restoration of all these buildings, but hope that they can get some help with it.) Stephen explained to us his ideas for a small museum about Ball in the nearby buildings (which also need repair) and also the fact that Peter Warwick of the 1805 would be visiting soon to see the state of things. Let us hope he might be able to do something. Afterwards Stephen kindly treated us to lunch in one of his favourite outdoor restaurants!

Thanks Ed for the tip about the boat trip around Grand Harbour, it was well worth it and with a very informative commentary (rather amusingly, the boat's skipper seemed particularly taken when the various operations of the Germans and Italians didn't quite come off... eg. 'the Ark Royal was in the dry dock when she was bombed by the enemy. However, all they succeeded in doing was to destroy some nearby buildings...' Actually many of the buildings still bear the scars and enemy bullet holes as a reminder of those unhappy times.

I can certainly recommend Malta, especially Valletta. You won't be short on things to see and do! The weather too was good, although towards the end of our stay it was getting just a little too warm – my tip(s): go before the summer season starts, stay out of the sun as much as possible, apply sunscreen and wear a hat. You'll also get plenty of exercise walking up and down the steep streets as well!

Kester,
I think your boatman needs to read up his history, because the aircraft carrier was the Illustrious that was in dry dock and it was attacked in what became known as the Illustrious Blitz by the Maltese on the 16th January 1941. The carrier was only hit once, while the three cities took the brunt of the attack. Illustrious was patched up and sailed for Alexander,Egypt for further repairs.
Slightly curious on the second paragraph? but glad you enjoyed lunch.

Cheers