Nelson & His World

Forgive me if this question has been raised before: I have tried searching the forum and only found queries about Emma's parenthood, not Nelson's), but is there any evidence that Emma had ceased intimitate relations with her husband at the time of Horatia's conception? I have Googled this also, and no one appears to have questioned this, but perhaps there is evidence I'm not aware of? I'm hoping someone on this forum can shed some light on it.

Don't get me wrong, as Horatia's 3rd great granddaughter, I am proud to be Lord Nelson (and Emma)'s direct descendant, but it has struck me in reading a biography of Emma (Emma Hamilton by Julie Peakman) that no explanation was given as to why it is "known" that Horatio was definitely the father. It could have been that all three of them wanted this to be the case, but the key question is: can we know for sure?

Lily Style

Hi Lily Its interesting to see someone directly related back to Emma Hamilton . I recently joined the forum to share Lady Hamiltons Seal which you can see in an earlier post. Sorry I cannot advise on your post.

A friend of mine works on a farm at Castle Goring Worthing and there is someone called Clem Somerset born 1956. Is he related back to Horatia via the Somerset and Tribe family ? http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.anc ... /f4716.htm

Hi steveyb,

There is no one by the name of Clem Somerset on the family tree I have worked out so far, but this doesn't mean he isn't related. Anna Tribe nee Somerset is my 3rd cousin 1x removed and we don't know each other personally. Also, online genealogy sites don't show records of living people, making them hard to pin point. My brother's research so far has found 32 living descendants of Horatia. If you can PM me the name of your friend's parents; grandparents; dates and places of birth & marriage, etc, I can see if anything tallies up. Also it might be worth your contacting John Tribe, Anna's grandson through his blog: http://www.johntribe.co.uk/the-descendants-of-lord-nelson-and-lady-hamilton/

Lily

Re Lady Hamilton's seal, I have just looked at the thread where you posted it and found seeing it actually quite moving. It's fabulous that you have had it verified by the British Library. Many thanks for sharing this image. My family has nothing of Emma's ourselves, though my mother does have Horatia's chair (which, if you search, you will see my brother posted a photo of)

Hi Lily

Glad you liked the seal . Having been given this at an early age it has resulted in an interest in the life of Lady Hamilton and Nelson .We live quite close to Uppark and I love visiting and thinking of Emma living there. I still have no idea who obtained it but it was one on two families Bawden or Dathan .
I will try to post a photo of the pill box it sits in where someone has written in pencil " Lady Hamiltons Seal "
and also try to find out a bit more about Clem Somerset .
Steve

Will re post later when I reduce file size

On the original point about Horatia's father, of course Nelson failed to impregnate Fanny whom we know could bear a child (Josiah). I can't recall who said it but I remember a quote that when someone referred to 'Nelson's Emma' the response was "you mean Anyone's Emma".

Ray

Hi Ray,

Thank you, but oh dear, I feel I might have opened up a can of worms! I want to focus on looking for evidence that Emma's relations with Lord Hamilton by 1800, when Horatia would have ben conceived, were platonic only.

I take your point about Nelson failing to father a child with Fanny (who was 26 when they married and, as I understand it, was not a love match), but I feel it's worth also bearing in mind that Lord Hamilton was in his 60s when he married Emma (so he might not have been that fertile himself)

Re Emma's possible promiscuity: without concrete evidence, I'm going to take stories of her having slept around with anyone else at the time she was with Nelson as based on slander (she was very unpopular with some people for having come from a working class background and having behaved freely for a woman of that era).

Lily

Just on a slight tangent here, but you should be saying Sir William Hamilton. not Lord Hamilton. The title Lady, as Emma was, applies to the wife of a knight, as well as a Lord.

It is probably best if you edit your posts and the original title of the thread to avoid confusion.

You should see an edit button at the bottom right of the post. Click on that, make any changes, and hit Submit.

ATB

Good point Mark, thank you. This is why I posted the question on this forum: I'm not an expert

Although Emma was a little free with her favours in her early life, I think that after her marriage to Sir William, her conduct was exemplary until Nelson entered her life. It is clear from her letters that she was grateful to Sir William not only for raising her to the status of a lady but for giving her the respectability of a married woman which she was careful not to risk. Naples at that time was a hotbed (!) of loose behaviour and yet there was not a breath of scandal about her sexual conduct. She had many detractors who were ready to criticise her manners, dress etc. but not one of them ever suggested that her behaviour was loose. They would certainly have spread the rumours had there been any. Until Nelson appeared, she was a remarkably devoted wife to her elderly husband - even baking him apple pies!

As for Horatia's paternity: there is a photograph of her in old age in which she bears a strong resemblance to Nelson. Her several times great granddaughter Anna Tribe also has Nelsonian features. Does anyone recall a photograph of her standing alongside a bust of Nelson? Their profiles were remarkably similar.

Re: possessions of Lady Hamilton. I have a piece of music which might be hers - and then again it might not, eh Mark?

Here's our earlier discussion about it:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=909&hilit=Lady+Hamiltons+music

Ref Anna Millicent Horatia Fitzroy Somerset is there any connection to the Fitzroy Somerset family ? They are related back to royalty.Or is the Fitzroy a red herring ?

http://www.beanweb.net/ft/frippuk/pafg126.htm

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for ... 31551.html


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Somerset_senior

Sir William was born in 1731 so when Horatia was born in January 1801 Sir William was near seventy years old. But even more compelling is that Emma was completely in love with Horatio Nelson and was an extremely loyal person. Sir William had become a father-figure in the family. If you, Lily, have not yet seen the 1929 silent Vitaphone film The Divine Lady starring Corinne Griffith as Emma please do so. It was uploaded to YouTube by N&HW member Rae Rae Franchi but can also be obtained from Amazon for about $11.00 US (http://www.amazon.com/Divine-Victor-Var ... B002PAP6GQ).

While Emma is always known as Lady Hamilton she was created a Dame of Malta (for men it would be Knight of Malta) by the Russian Czar for her efforts in obtaining food to help the population there during a famine. There is a famous painting by Johann Schmidt in the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich (http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/sea-and-sh ... and-nelson) showing her wearing the Cross of the order, which she obtained permission from the King to wear in England. She was always proud to be the first Englishwoman so honored. So it would be correct I believe, although she is never referred to as such, to call her Dame Emma.

To be a direct descendent of Emma must make you proud almost beyond belief.

Thank you, Jesse, for these inspiring words regarding Emma. And, yes, I am proud to be her direct descendant and my pride is growing exponentially as I learn more and more about her outstanding, independant achievements. I am in the process of/feeling the ground for setting up an Emma Hamilton Society (beta site, here: http://www.emmahamiltonsociety.co.uk/) and would very much value your contribution of ideas and knowledge, if you would be interested in being involved? I am thinking of adding a pro-Emma publications list and the film you refer to would be relevant to such a page. Lily