Nelson & His World

Hi All,
Showing my age somewhat here, but one of my earliest interests with the subject of Nelson as a youngster was a visit to Madame Tussauds in the late sixties to see the recreated Orlop Deck of HMS Victory and the death of Nelson, with all the sounds and smells of the Battle of Trafalgar. Great Stuff indeed.
Would love to know what happened to the display when it ended at Madame Tussauds and where it might have gone to.
With the debate on making history appealing to a younger generation it should certainly be redone again and I for one would go again.

Hello Stephen,

I also remember going to see that exhibition at Madame Tussaud's, I think with my school! I still have the catalogue somewhere. Like you I was very impressed, with the figures of the seamen at the guns, the smoke and the electronic gun flashes – and of course Nelson's death scene.

I know we have had a discussion about this once before and debated what happened to it. I can't remember if it was on this forum or, more probably, on another Nelson sight that used to function and which many of us used to contribute to. If it was on that site Mark, if he sees this, may remember! I believe the view was that the exhibition was probably scrapped. A great shame, and I at least thought it should have become a permanent fixture as being such an important part of British history!

Incidentally, I don't know if it is only me, but I was not very impressed with MT's the last time I went there, which was a few years ago. It may be that I know very little, and want to know even less, about some of the 'personalities' that are now on show, but somehow I had the impression that the modelling wasn't so good. I remember too that my Swedish wife was also not too impressed with the Royalty gallery, where a figure of the old King of Sweden, Gustav Vl Adolf, was on display instead of the present King, Carl XVl Gustav – who has been on the throne since 1973! I wonder if they've changed it yet!

I don't know what happened to it, but here it is being constructed in 1967, thanks to Pathe again.

And thanks to you Tony, Great Stuff, should be reinstated again somewhere, any suggestions?

Thanks too for that Tony!

I still think, without evidence to the contrarary, that is was probably – and very unfortunately – destroyed. This would seem almost sacriledge, not only from the large amount that it cost, but also from its subject matter.

If it were to be miraculously found, I would imagine the National Maritime Museum might be a good place to display it, in a revamped Nelson gallery. What a good learning aid for children that would make!

And highly appealing to French and Spanish visitors too.

I enjoyed the Pathe newsreel - it was great to see parts of that exhibition at Mme. Tussaud's. In 1966 I was hired by the exhibition's designer, Timothy O'Brien, to make measured drawings for Tussaud's of the orlop deck where Nelson was brought, mortally wounded. The most difficult part of the job for me was the fact that there were no straight lines from which to measure - the side of the ship curved in two directions, as did the deck and every other part of the ship. Every few minutes I was interrupted by a Cadet leading a group of tourists to see the spot, and I would straighten up and hit my head on the very low deck above me. The Victory's Commander at that time was Captain Dick Whittington, who graciously gave me a tour of the ship, and told me that his ancestor and namesake was the Lord Mayor with the noteworthy cat.
-Steve Saxe, New York

Hello Steve,

I am sure you will get a formal welcome from our the 'boss', Anna, when she returns from holiday, but in the meanwhile a welcome from me.

Working for the display at Madame Tussaude's must have been an interesting project. Would you like to tell us more? Many of us remember it well and, as you see, wonder what happened to it. I still have the booklet which was produced at the time.

SOS22,
Welcome and Enjoy.

Hello & welcome, Steve.

It looks like you were pretty successful in giving Tussaud's something they could work from. I think they have since moved 'the spot', haven't they?

Tony,

The 'spot'?

The spot where Nelson died on the orlop deck. Didn't they decide it wasn't where they previously thought it was?

Tony,

Ok, I'm with you now, 'the' spot!

Yes, it has now been decided, I think largely by Peter Goodwin, that the position in which Nelson was placed was rather further forward than previously thought, on the larboard side of the orlop and just aft of the cable tier. The place was partly calculated by the number of casualties estimated as already lying further aft on the orlop, when Nelson was brought below. On British ships casualties were usually treated in strict rotation, so I imagine that Nelson was just placed in the next space available. I think the distance between the old and new 'spots' was about 40'.

Presumably Steve, when working on the Mde. Tussaud's diorama back in the sixties, would have been modelling it on the old information.

Only just returned to this site after a long absence.

Yes the Madame Tussauds Trafalgar exhibit was truly spectacular and was responsible for my interest in the subject. As a kid in the 60's, I can remember how this depiction of the horror of the Victory's gun deck made a huge impact on me. The sound track that went with the scene(s) were also very well thought out. From memory it started with the sailors singing "Hearts of Oak" and then onto the "England Expects" signal followed by the actual battle as seen from the Victory's gun deck. Extremely loud cannon noises at full volume (Health and Safety wouldn't allow it now of course) and they even had the loud rattle of grape shot hitting the ship (and men) plus screams of the wounded etc. When I visited a few years later, when I was about 15, it still had the same affect on me. Just to confirm how good it was I can remember some 10 years later, as an adult in my mid twenties, a bloke at work in his fifties coming up to me and telling me he had just been to Madame Tussauds and was deeply affected by the Trafalgar exhibit. And this was someone not interested in the subject so this perhaps gives some idea the impact it had on people.

Anyway, we had a similar discussion on this site a few years ago. I contacted Madame Tussaud and asked what happened to the exhibit. Unfortunately it has been destroyed. I think it may have been destroyed by fire. Shame as I still think it would shock and excite people even in todays world of computer generated images. It really did give a horrific insight into what it must have been like to be on that gun deck during the most famous sea battle in history.