Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
It is currently Sat Jun 07, 2025 10:41 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Union Jack or Union Flag?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:25 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 2830
Location: mid-Wales
I have always felt I was being 'correct' in referring to a Union Jack only on a ship at sea, and calling it otherwise the Union Flag. However, it seems there is still some debate.

The remarks appear in, of all places, the fashion pages of today's Times.
The article is discussing the popularity of the Union Flag/Jack on items of clothing and soft furnishings. The writer comments:

'a cross reader who once wrote to me on this topic argued that no one should call it the Union Jack unless it is being flown at sea - on all other occasions it should be referred to as the Union Flag. Others counter that this is rubbish because in 1902 an Admiralty circular announced that both names could be used officially. So there.'

Any comments?

_________________
Anna


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Anna,

My understanding is that this is technically correct and that it refers to the flag when worn at sea. 'Jack', I believe was a sea term for small and referred to the union flag when worn at the bows – initially on the bowsprit, later on the 'jackstaff' – because it was, and is, smaller than the ensign in proportion.

This term, as for so many in the English language, came gradually to be used on land and has stuck ever since – despite what is correct usage. As has been noticed, even the Admiralty recognise that they cannot stop it!

_________________
Kester.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Anna,

This is what Wikipedia has to say on the matter:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Flag

_________________
Kester.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:41 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:11 am
Posts: 1376
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Anna,

Coincidentally you may like to know, since we are on the subject, that I have just had delivered today from the UK a small Union Flag/Jack, which will fly at our summer cottage alongside the Swedish Flag which we already have. The latter is flown from a short staff mounted on a bracket on the veranda and I will provide a similar one for the Union Jack (which I will call it, even though it is on land!) and which will fly a few feet from it.

Incidentally, here in Sweden and in other Scandinavian countries, the flying of the National flag seems to be much more common than in England. Practically every house, apart from apartment blocks, has its flagpole and even the latter usually have a communal one in the grounds – and at summer cottages it is almost obligatory! There are of course set 'flagdays' as in England, such as Royal birthdays and the National day (soon on June 6th) when the Swedish flag is flown, but it is much more usual for ordinary people to fly the National flag and it is not, as in England, commonly seen only on public buildings. Charmingly, even the buses have two small flags on the front (one port, one starboard at the 'bows') on National days. When not a 'flag' day, the National flag is often replaced on flagpoles by a 'wimple' a long tapering pennant, divided horizontally, blue and yellow. This is similar to a ship's pennant, and I have often wondered if this was yet another instance the influence of the sea coming ashore. I can also remember sailing into small ports in Norway, to be greeted by the sight of almost a forest of flagpoles, belonging to the small cottages on shore.

_________________
Kester.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:13 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 11:06 am
Posts: 2830
Location: mid-Wales
Kester:

Many thanks for those informative posts.

Yes, I remember from my days in Norway that the national flag was very widely displayed outside private homes as well as on public buildings. And they were always flown on election days, which has a nice symbolism in a democracy, I think.

It seems to be catching on in a small way here. Several houses in our village have flagpoles to 'fly the flag'.

_________________
Anna


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by p h p B B © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 p h p B B Group