Nelson & His World

'I have just been amusing myself,' wrote Captain Byam Martin of the Implacable to his brother in 1808, 'in acertaining the diversity of human beings which compose the crew of a British ship of war' [and which, he added, was typical] 'and as I think you will be entertained with a statement of the ridiculous medley, it shall follow precisely as their place of nativity is inserted in the ship's book:

English 285, Irish 130, Welsh 25, Isle of Man 6, Scots 29, Shetland 3, Orkneys 2, Guernsey 2, Canada 1, Jamaica 1, Trinidad 1, St Domingo 2, St Kitts 1, Martinique 1, Santa Cruz 1, Bermuda 1, Sweden 8, Danes 7, Prussians 8, Dutch 1, Germans 3, Corsica 1, Portuguese 5, Sicily 1, Minorca 1, Ragusa 1, Brazil 1, Spanish 2, Madeira 1, Americans 28, West Indies 2, Bengal 2.'

Source: 'Nelson and his Captains' by Ludovic Kennedy, (Fontana 1976)

Kennedy mentioned another group, in addition to volunteers, quota men, pressed men etc. that I had not come across before, namely, 'Lord Mayor's Men - 'youths of good family who had been found in bawdy houses or drunk in the street and feared to see their name in the papers.'

An interesting light on the social pressures of the day. It was a period notorious for drunkenness and licentiousness; yet people clearly feared personal association with vice. The sin was not the commission of the offence, maybe, but getting found out.

Such men were almost certainly literate. I was interested to read in 'Jack Tar' that some men spent their leisure hours learning to read and write - perhaps the Lord Mayor's Men were among their teachers.

Anna

A slightly different perspective on what you wrote above.

The quote:



seems to me much too specific to describe Lord Mayor's Men who I always thought were literally ANY men who ended up in the navy as an alternative to a prison sentence.

Doubtless it did bring in some men from "good" families but also from every other strata of society. Likewise their sentence could have resulted fom 1001 miscellaneous offences and misdemeanours.

Also whilst a man with some education might have been beneficial to his shipmates - I believe that captains were quite often nervous to have educated men amongst the lower ranks. The reason being that they were more likely to see injustices and organise reaction against them.

The classic example of this was Richard Parker - who was hanged as a ringleader of the Nore Mutiny in 1797. Parker came from a solid middle-class family and had already been in and out of the navy once when:



I believe that would have classified him as a "Lord Mayor's Man".

His background singled him out as a natural leader of the mutineers leading of course to the eventual execution of himself and several others.

Apologies if I got all or part of this wrong - but if I am correct it just provides a different perspective on this aspect of recruitment into the Navy.

MB

Many thanks for the clarification, Mark. I'd never heard the term 'Lord Mayor's Men' before. And I think you're right that there was a wariness among captains of educated men who had the skills to mobilise discontent.

Captains were wary too, of the additional right granted to seamen to send letters cheaply; the combination of literate men and ease of communication could have more readily fomented mutiny.

Crikey!!

I wanted to be sure that I wasn't being misleading - so I checked a couple of my books for definitions of "Lord Mayor's Men".

One of them is "A Sea of Words" - the companion to Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin series.

Their definition reads as follows:



So it seems it may have started as something quite precise and ended up much broader in nature. My own interpretation seems to sit somewhere in the middle.

But it leaves me wondering where those words "street frolic" and "night charge" came from.

The inference is that they come from some official document - but it's hard to imagine them being in an Act of Parliament or somesuch.

Time for some shuteye methinks - and hopefully a clearer head in the morning!

MB

Google Books shows this quote to be from William Robinson's memoir 'Nautical Economy' (Jack Nastyface), and was used by William Laird Clowes in his history of the Royal Navy, and thus acquired sufficient authority to be repeated many times since.

I was under the same impression as you, Mark, that the expression referred to any men sent by the magistrates. The Lord Mayor was (and is) chief magistrate of the City of London, and also had jurisdiction over the Thames down to the sea. He is also Admiral of the Port of London, but I'm not sure when he acquired that title, except it was before 1840.

I don't know for sure that William Robinson is 'wrong', but it is very dangerous to infer generalities from individual personal memoirs, particularly from snippets written for effect. Today we worry about the Internet perpetuating misinformation, but so much history (and biography) in books is bunk!

Anna, there were other captains who sometimes paid the postage on their seamen's letters.

Tony

Thanks for clarifying that.

It's the direction my mind was moving in - i.e. that somebody had used the phrase for literary effect and it then took on a sort of semi-official status.

I certainly had no idea that the Lord Mayor was the senior magistrate - hence "Lord Mayor's Men" for men who had been convicted by a magistrate.

I'm sure that information like that would have been "common knowledge" back then.

I'm digging deep in my brain cells here - but I'm sure that this recruiting of men from the courts/prisons came in around 1795.

i.e. The original Quota Acts were introduced to recruit specific numbers of men from specific sources. But when it was realised that they need yet more men magistrates were given these additional powers.

The mind boggles at some of the shambolic specimens of humanity that must have been sent to the Receiving Ships. No wonder that a tough regime was needed to lick them into shape.

MB

I've always found the image below interesting since I came across it a few years ago.

Firstly it shows how prize fights (or Pitched Battles as graphically described here) were often fought on the borders of two or even three counties. This obviously made it easier for them to slip over the border and escape any magistrates who might loom on the horizon.

But here the magistrates of the three counties are working together, making escape all but impossible.

The magistrates were threatening to recruit a whole crowd of "Lord Mayor's Men" for the Navy. I should imagine this would have curbed the enthusiasm of even the most hardened member of the "Fancy".



MB

Mark:

do you have a date for the snippet you quote above? If it was post 1795, and they were under pressure to make up their quota, it seems counter-productive for the magistrates to advertise their knowledge of the meeting, rather than arrange a sudden swoop. On the other hand, the need to avert civil disorder might have been a greater pressure than meeting the quota.

The topic was also discussed some time ago on the forum when I quoted extracts from a Georgian shopkeeper/magistrate (before the Quota Act) who used to go to the ale-houses on the look-out for drunkards 'to send to sea', presumably as a way of keeping the King's Peace.

http://www.nelsonandhisworld.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=474

Tony:

I suppose the captains used their discretion: letters to Mrs Jack Tarpaulin, Portsmouth might be paid for; letters to Jack Knuckleduster, HMS Disgruntled, maybe not!

Anna

The notice was in the newspaper on 23rd November 1795.

I can only speak specifically for Warwickshire but I don't think the inland counties found it TOO difficult to meet their initial quotas.

They did their best to drum up patriotic fervour - and unemployment and the bounties on offer also played a part.

So it could be that the magistrates here just found it a useful "scare tactic" to try and prevent this fight taking place.

However that is just pure conjecture on my behalf - not in any way based on fact.

MB

Thanks for that, Mark.

I had got it into my head that fulfilling the quota could prove something of a headache for magistrates. I was 'googling' to see if I could find anything that might have given me that idea when I came across a footnote to a book on the economy of Kent which stated that the quota required of Kent exceeded that of Devon, and that Dover was expected to supply 241 men and Sandwich 74. (Source: C. Lloyd 'The British Seaman, 1200-1860, a Social Survey. (London 1970.)

This leads me to another question: what were the criteria for deciding how many men each location had to supply under the Quota Acts?

It could be that it was in places - hence I was being a little tentative.

But I know in Warwickshire it took just a very few weeks. I will have to look it out - but I have the notice from the newspaper when it was stated that the county had fulfilled its requirement.

Quotas were set for all the sea ports and separately for the counties.

I can only assume that the level for the counties was roughly pro rata to the population. (Another reason for the first census in 1801?)

As for the ports that must have been a much harder one!!

MB

I just checked back in my records.

On 30th March 1795 the Birmingham newspapers reported that the magistrates had met to consider the requirement to raise men for the Navy.

And by 4th May there was a notice that the town's complement was complete. (Sorry that was just the town - not the whole county as I stated above - but still pretty impressive I am sure you will agree!)

It's interesting that on one day there was an advert stating that parishes which had not met their complement could apply to Sergeant Lea at the "Rendezvous" in Birmingham as he would be able to direct suitable men to them!!

Good old Birmingham - as far from the sea as you can get and sailors to spare!

I got quite interested in this whole subject at one time and I have a copy of a university thesis about the Quota Acts in the North Riding of Yorkshire.

I learnt from that that all the original records of the recruits still existed in the Yorkshire county archive. This led to me checking the Warwick archive and lo and behold they, too, have all the records for the Warwickshire recruits. So I have here the names, descriptions etc. etc. of all the Birmingham men.

I was hoping one day to follow through the naval careers of one or two of them but have simply never got round to it.

It would be interesting to know if any of the other County archives still have the Quota Act recruitment records for their particular county.

MB

Mark:

a very quick Google has revealed that returns exist of men enlisted under the Quota Acts for several counties: North Riding of Yorkshire as you mentioned, Leicester, Rutland, Northumberland etc. There are probably many more to be found. The Quota Act of 1796 also required counties to recruit men for the militia, such was the fear of invasion.

A Royal navy website I found earlier - can't find it now! - noted that the quota for each county depended on population and the number of seaports it contained (perhaps that should be 'or'?)