Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:24 pm 
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Just thinking out loud here really - but I have recently read a press report from 1821 which stated the following:

"Within the last 125 years the British Navy has sustained SIX GREAT MARITIME WARS; and in each successively, it has employed a force more formidable and better organised than on any of the preceeding.

Just got me wondering EXACTLY what they defined as these SIX wars.

Off the top of my head (plus Wikipedia) I jotted down the following.

War of Spanish Succession 1701-1714

War of Jenkin's Ear/Austrian Succession 1739-1748

Seven Year's War 1756-1763

American War of Independence 1775-1783

Fourth Anglo-Dutch War 1780-1784

War with Revolutionary/Napoleonic France 1793-1815


Just interested in any comments. Anything I have got wrong here? Anything I have included/excluded in error?

Thanks

MB


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 Post subject: Re: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 7:55 am 
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One comment Mark!

I am dubious about the inclusion of a thing called the 'Fourth Anglo-Dutch War 1780-1784' In this country we inaccurately and narrowly describe the great conflict of 1775-1783 as 'The American War of Independence' whereas it was a global conflict extending from the Americas to the English Channel, the W Indies and India in which, taking advantage of Britain's extremity, the French, Spanish and Dutch all joined. But it was still one war - not four.

Counting back 125 years from 1821, we get 1696. Could the sixth conflict have been King William's War of the League of Augsburg?

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:33 am 
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Thanks Brian.

Like me you can see it is difficult to be PRECISE about which six conflicts the writer was referring to.

I was just having a rough stab myself so have quite likely got it wrong.

And yet - since he doesn't list them himself - the writer must have felt comfortable that his readers would easily relate to them.

I don't suppose we will know the DEFINITIVE answer - but I think it makes an interesting discussion point.

MB

P.S. I wonder if at that date (1821) people would have seen my last named (Revolutionary/Napoleonic France) as ONE continuous war, or TWO separate wars.


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 Post subject: Re: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 9:54 am 
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I've just listened to an excellent programme on the Radio 4 series 'In Our Time.' There is a lucid and informative discussion on the ideas of the great 18th century parliamentarian and orator Edmund Burke with regard to revolution, law, authority that gives an interesting insight into the intellectual, political and philosophical background to the great events of the day such as the American and French revolutions, the consequences of which had such an impact on the Royal Navy.

The programme will be available soon on the BBC website so you can 'listen again.'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/features/in-our-time/

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 Post subject: Re: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:32 am 
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Mark Barrett wrote:

P.S. I wonder if at that date (1821) people would have seen my last named (Revolutionary/Napoleonic France) as ONE continuous war, or TWO separate wars.


Mark,

A moot point! To many, both then and now it probably would have seemed/seems like ONE continuous conflict, whereas I think technically it was TWO. In passing, wasn't the latter referred also to as 'the Great War', the original use of the term before the 1914-18 conflict - or did that term apply to both of them?

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 Post subject: Re: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 1:55 pm 
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Devenish wrote:
Mark Barrett wrote:
Mark,

A moot point! To many, both then and now it probably would have seemed/seems like ONE continuous conflict, whereas I think technically it was TWO. In passing, wasn't the latter referred also to as 'the Great War', the original use of the term before the 1914-18 conflict - or did that term apply to both of them?


Kester

I am thinking that for those people who were around less than 20 years after the Treaty of Amiens it might have seemed much more like two wars rather than one.

i.e. there was a gap of some 2 years between the two "phases", there were victory/peace celebrations across the land, commemorative medals were struck, men were "laid off", inc. of course Nelson, regiments were disbanded etc. etc. etc.

Whereas for us - 200 years on - the lines are much more blurry.

Oh for that time machine - again!!

MB


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 Post subject: Re: Maritime Wars of the Eighteenth Century
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2010 3:07 pm 
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A quick Google in the text of books of that period makes me wonder whether 'the Great War' was used in such a definitive way as we suppose. The "great war" or "great wars", if used without further qualification, seems always to refer to the last war that involved more than two nations, but whether it refers to 1793-1815 or 1803-1815 seems to depend on the context, and it may also refer to other dates relating to other countries. Before 1793 the American war was described as the 'great war', and before that the Seven Year's war and so on.

But Google Books also shows the author of the quote to be Charles Dupin in his 'Travels in Great Britain', and he resolves the question a few lines further on:
Quote:
' Within the last 125 years, the British navy has sustained six great maritime wars; and in each, successively, it has employed a force more formidable and better organized than in any of the preceding. It is since this period that England has realized its pretensions to the sovereignty of the sea, by occupying all the important points which serve as the keys to that domain. Gibraltar, Malta, and the Ionian Isles, insure its dominion in the Mediterranean. With Heligoland, its power reaches towards the Baltic. By means of St. Helena, the Cape of Good Hope, and the Isle of France, it commands the passage to India. Lastly, India itself, the finest of the West Indian islands, Canada, Newfoundland, and New Holland, have increased these important possessions. These are the conquests which England has made since its revolution, and which it owes to the progress of its naval force. Rome only, at the time of its most brilliant success, can afford us an example of such a system of aggrandizement.' —

Towards the end of the seventeenth century, the maritime wars of England consisted of a few battles with one or two fleets ; its ships made some cruizes, formed isolated blockades, and undertook certain enterprizes, sufficient for the purposes of a campaign. But, in the naval war which we have seen begun and finished in the nineteenth century, England conceived the idea of attacking nearly at the same time the navies of France, Spain, Holland, Denmark, Italy, and even America f it has, in short, opposed itself to every maritime power of the world. Not only has it blockaded all the war-ports which could send out any squadron or flotilla, but it has also blockaded all the commercial ports ; a spectacle of which, up to that time, no maritime power had offered an example. The inhabitants of an island, of but small extent, have succeeded in forming with their own ships a continuous line of observation along all the coasts of Europe. Asia, Africa, and America. — All the the continents of the two worlds have been simultaneously besieged, islands taken by main force, the commerce of the universe invaded, and, finally, after twenty years of combat, this naval power, which began the contest with 30 millions of subjects, has terminated it by consolidating an empire, including the conquerors and the conquered, of 80 millions. Let us, moreover, recall to mind that Great Britain Las never, during this epoch, employed more than 145,000 sailors and marines in effecting these prodigies

'The naval war which we have seen begun and finished in the nineteenth century' must refer to 1803-1815.

But then later he refers to 'twenty years of combat'...

Blurry, even then!

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