Nelson & His World

Wondering if anyone can help me in my researching the walker cannons, that were used throughout nelsons navy,and made here in my home town of Rotherham.
Sadly this piece of Rotherhams history is almost forgotten about,hopefully this can turned round with a proper museum etc.
I have started a website with the bits and pieces I already know,not a great deal.

http://cannons.yolasite.com/

Welcome to the forum, Tiltwick.

I'm sorry no one seems to be able to add anything to your researches so far - I'm surprised, as there's a great deal of specialist knowledge on this site - but we're certainly glad to have the information and the link to your website. Please update us on anything you discover.

T

What books - if any - have you looked up?

I have a copy here of the History of English Sea Ordnance (Vol 2 1715-1815). There is only brief mention of Walker & Company but plenty of general information and a short Bibliography which might point you in other directions.

I also have a copy of a few pages from a book called Gunfounding & Gunfounders by A.N. Kennard. Unfortunately can't say from what I have here if Walker & Co. are included but that might be another book to track down.

MB

In addition to Caruana's work, I have a copy of 'British Naval Armaments' edited by Robert Smith. This is a series of papers, which includes one by Brian Lavery on Carronades and Blomefield guns, which has quite a bit on the work Walker did in the late 1780s casting new pattern guns for the Ordnance Board.
Amongst the other papers, relating to this period, are pieces on Artillery designs and the introduction of gunlocks.

Hi Tiltwick,

I’m afraid I know nothing about the manufacture of cannon or the companies involved, so can’t be of much help to you there, but I was fascinated by the information on your website and the links from it. One thing that intrigued me was a description of how cannon were bored, which was by turning the cannon itself (at speed by water power), rather than turning the rod/drill used to bore it. It had never occurred to me that it was done that way round, but I suppose the momentum of the spinning cannon made it a much more reliable method. What amazing ingenuity!

I would be very interested to know Anthony Munford’s source for the information that 79 of the Victory’s 104 cannon at Trafalgar were made by Walker and Company. The hms-victory.com website, here, confirms that when guns were put into a ship, a record was made of the manufacturers name and the gun's individual number, but they do not seem to have that information for the guns on board at Trafalgar. It makes the point that only twelve of the guns on board today date from the Napoleonic wars. Ten of these were cast by Walker & Company, but are not the guns that were on board at Trafalgar, having been put on board in 1808 after the Victory’s repair. Peter Goodwin, when describing the Victory’s armament, references the document ‘ADM 160/154 Returns of ordnance on H.M. Ships. 1803-1812’. If you can get to the National Archives, it would be worth checking this to see whether it provides that level of detail for the Victory and for other ships.

By the way, I am a little confused by the arithmetic at hms-victory.com. The Victory’s broadside weight at Trafalgar is quoted at 1148 lbs, but the guns listed add up to only 1144 lbs (after dividing by 2 for one side only). In that case the error is easily explained by the 68 pounder carronades being incorrectly listed as 64-pounders, but the broadside weight of the 1803 armament is listed as 1092 lbs, whereas the list of guns adds up to 1112 lbs, which is 20 lbs more. Can anyone explain the discrepancy?

An analysis of the firepower of British ships at Trafalgar provides some surprises. The Victory’s firepower was less than that of the 3rd-rate large 74-gun ship, Belleisle, which at one time so bristled with carronades (fourteen 32-pounders and eight 24-pounders) that she actually carried 86 guns. And with 24-pounder long guns on the upper gun deck (rather than 18-pounders) she had a total broadside weight of 1178 lbs, and although her armament at Trafalgar may have varied from this (William James even suggested 90 guns and 1284 lbs broadside), I am sure it is one of the reasons she was one of Collingwood’s leading ships. By contrast, the 74-gun Minotaur’s armament when not equipped with carronades was only 781 lbs.

many thanks for all your replies,and information

Could you send me over that information maybe scan the book?

Not sure about his sources,sadly he passed away many years ago,and I havent been able to track down his family.



Can you scan this,very interested in reading this.

I was chatting to somebody who researched the walker cannons back in the 80s and 90s,don scott.He really got no help from the local council,apart from a few exceptions.
I was looking at one of the houses today, that the walker family built from the fortune they made from making cannons.Clifton house that is now our local museum, is a fine building with no mention of its being funded by money made from making and selling cannons.
I wonder if nelson himself ever came to Rotherham,and maybe stopped at one of the walker houses.
People from all over britain came to see the test firings,including a lot of european heads of state.

T

If you want to see the whole book it would be too much to scan or copy.

I am sure if you go along to your local library they will help you to obtain copies through the inter-library loan system.

Meantime here is a little aside. I don't know if you are aware that a number of cannon which had become surplus to requirements were sold off and used as (amongst other things) street bollards.

I believe it is the reason that even modern bollards look roughly like cannon standing on their ends.

In Birmingham they used four cannon for the bases of the lamps at the corners of the Nelson statue. You get a good view of one of them on the picture below.

Thye were sold off in the 1960's - but 2 have been recovered and refurbished. Unfortunately I don't recall there being any makers marks on them.

But who knows - there could be Walker & Co. cannon out there somewhere which were adapted for a similar purpose.



MB

Here is a little video clip - albeit I am sure that decommissioned British cannon were used - not just enemy ones.

http://www.monumentaladventure.com/lond ... os/lonbol/

And on this website for replica bollards they even have one called the "Trafalgar".

http://www.furnitubes.com/bollards-spec ... ssions.php

The legacy of that chap Nelson is lurking in the most unlikely places!!

MB

Excellent I will enquire at our local Library.
I really do like the lamp post supported cannons around Nelsons monument.
There is no such thing in Rotherham given its major connection to Nelson,which is ludicrous, but Iam working on it,any help would be very welcome,the local council is pathetic when it comes to Rotherhams heritage.
Can I use the picture on my website?
And excelllent video clips which I will link to,on the site.

T

You are welcome to use the picture. Even though I didn't do so myself would appreciate if you can credit Birmingham Archives & Heritage - which is where the original resides.

Another aside but I just checked out that there were five men on the British ships at Trafalgar who gave Rotherham as their place of birth.

One was on a frigate (Euryalus) which was not actually a fighting ship but another two were on HMS Revenge, one on HMS Minotaur, and one on HMS Swiftsure.

It is quite often of interest to people when they realise how many men came from the inland towns.

Sorry to stray off topic - but thought it was worth mentioning in the overall context.

MB

Excellent is the memorial still there?
Can you give me the names of the men from Rotherham who served at Trafalgar.
It would be a nice lever, to track down the relatives and get it into the local press.

Unfortunately no memorial or anything like that.

The information comes from the muster books of the ships - which are still held at the National Archive.

The information has been put into a fantastic database called the Ayshford Trafalgar Roll.

The details of the Rotherham men are as follows:

Thomas Jephson : Landsman : Aged 23 : HMS Revenge
William Wild : Landsman : Aged 24 : HMS Revenge
Thomas McGurick : Landsman : Aged 25 : HMS Swiftsure
John Stott : Able Seaman : Aged 25 : HMS Minotaur
Jesse Boyd : Able Seaman : Aged 27 : HMS Euryalus

If you go to the National Archive yourself or use a paid researcher it is possible to get a copy of the original muster book entry/entries.

From experience that is something thst your local press would lap up - esp. around the anniversary of Trafalgar (21 October)

It seems that Boyd had allocated part of his pay to go directly to his mother which it was perfectly permissible to do. The papers for that are also at the NA (ADM27/16) and there is a chance that they will contain his mother's address in Rotherham.

Having said that - the chance of finding any descendants of these men is VERY VERY slim. There is every chance they were killed in some later action or died at sea or settled in some other part of the country/world.

Also these were just ordinary men. Despite taking part in this famous battle it is unlikely that their deaths warranted any special mention or that they would even have had gravestones recording their names.

But if you can get something in the local press there is the tiniest chance that something will come out of the woodwork. i.e. something that has passed down in the folklore of the town or cropped up in somebody's family history research.

But best not to get excited or optimistic and then anything you do find is a BONUS.

Sorry this is taking us yet further from your original question - but hope it is of interest.

MB

Im now in the process of forming a society for the Rotherham cannons.Calling it The Rotherham cannon heritage Society.
We already have quite a few Rotherham dwellers interested,but membership is open to anyone.The main area is research,in different parts of the country ie at the national archives etc.Running my own buisness I don't get much time to travel,and everbody else works full time.
I wonder if there are retired people on this forum willing to help?

T

Just out of interest how on earth did they transport those cannon to get them at least to the nearest port. They would have been incredibly heavy to carry by road.

Was there any canal system running close to Rotherham?

MB

Hi mark,
They used the River don, that runs through Rotherham all the the way to Goole, where it meets the river ouse,and the river humber,then by Sea to portsmouth and chatham.
I did some lateral thinking, and did a bit of investigation in to transporting heavy loads in that era, and how other heavy goods made here were transported around the UK,plus the Walkers altered sections of the river, and maybe built heavy Horse drawn Road transport carriages.A big question is how were the river barges powered,possibly steam?
Truth is, it is still a big interesting puzzle