Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Re: Illigimate Son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton
PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 6:28 pm 
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I'm still highly confused about these baptism certificates.

Brian - it sounds as if you have seen these files at Kew which I haven't. But are you saying that there were definitely actual printed certificates that were given to parents at the time of a baptism. I would love to see one and the format etc. etc.

My actual experience of this is very scant. But I did trace one guy back to his Lieutenant's examination and I got a researcher at Kew to pull out the various papers. In this case all there was was a written confirmation from the parish priest of the details for this guy from the Parish Register. I'll attach a scan of that document.

Now what good is this to prove a person's age when it only gives the date of the baptism??!! I know I was told once that it wasn't unheard of for a family to "save up" their children and have a joint baptism when the oldest could easily have been 3 or 4 years old.

I'm sure that in any Baptism register I have seen it didn't give the date of birth only the date of the baptism. But I could be wrong. I am by no means an expert in this area. LOL!

If anyone can throw any further light I would be most grateful. Otherwise it might be time for a lie down in a dark room! :)

Attachment:
eatonbapt.jpg
eatonbapt.jpg [ 157.31 KiB | Viewed 2055 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: Illigimate Son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:17 pm
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Mark!

I think I have confused you and possibly myself.

In my previous post I did not wish to imply that there were standard printed certificates which were given to parents at the time of the baptism. The documents I saw had clearly been specially produced for the purpose of (in this case) confirming the age of the mid. in question. It was the fact that they were one-offs of course that gave scope for falsification of dates.

At the time, I was checking on the origins and careers of some 50 mids in the S America Squadron (I think in the Adm11 and Adm 107 series) and my recollection is of a bundle of printed documents large and small filled in in ink which covered the person’s record from baptism to the present. However in view of what you have said (and indeed what I have written above) I am beginning to doubt whether all or any of the baptismal certificates were in fact printed. It was a long time ago and I fear I do not remember.

I will go back to the NA over the next month to check and will keep you informed. Until then, I will follow your advice and find a darkened room!

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: Illegimate Son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton
PostPosted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:02 pm 
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Mark/Brian/Phil/tycho,

Thanks for your posts ...... interesting info!

As per my original post, my objective was to find out further information that would confirm:

1) whether or not Horatio William Spencer is indeed the illegitimate son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton/Emma Hart - if this is true we can then move on and complete the Spencer family tree by adding the Nelson/Ward/Suckling/Style lineage to it.

If the above is not true them the second option is:
2) Horatio William Spencer's natural parents are Thomas Spencer & Mary Hever and we can work with this lineage.

As requested attached are a copy of the Horatio William Spencer Baptism & Burial records taken from the "Nottinghamshire Parish Records".

Thanks for your help so far!

PS We're still looking for a Nelson candidate to continue our DNA testing?

Regards,
Roy
8)

Mark/Brian/Phil/tycho,

Found an error in the attachment relating to Horatia Nelson's YOB was shown as 1800 should have been 1801. See the revised attachment.

Regards,
Roy
8)


Attachments:
File comment: 2) Horatio William Spencer Birth & Burial Register Doc's.
HoratioWilliamSpencer-Nelson-Emma-Gotham1rcs-1800-1889-Sept2015.pdf [54.36 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Illigimate Son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:11 am
Posts: 1
Hi,

Did you ever do the DNA tests. I'm a descendant of Horatio Spencer and my daughter has done a DNA test. It showed southern European in the results, this could be normal but Mary Hever could be the source. The percentages also match.


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 Post subject: Re: Illigimate Son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:06 pm
Posts: 11
At this time proof of baptism, for instance to use as proof of a person's age, would have been made by a member of the clergy or parish clerk, with information taken from the entry in the parish church's register of births, marriages and deaths. Usually the baptism entry was the first record of a birth, the actual date of which was not always known. Human nature being what it is, facts may have been 'adjusted' when copies were made, and such copies may not be reliable. Formal documents were not usual, the relatively informal letter being acceptable if properly signed.

Emma Hamilton gave birth to Horatia in Sir William Hamiton's Piccadilly house, while he was actually in residence. The notion of her giving birth on a warship is frankly ridiculous and as other members have attested, virtually impossible.

Emma Hamilton's visits to the Foundling Hospital, and her reasons for visiting, have been noted above and are well documented.There was nothing secretive about her dealings with that remarkable establishment. Nelson sponsored many children, and after Trafalgar thousands of boys, almost all totally unknown to him, where given his name. He was the first international Superstar in the 'Age of the Hero.'

Bet wishes,Vanda Cain


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 Post subject: Re: Illigimate Son of Lord Nelson & Lady Hamilton
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:00 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:06 pm
Posts: 11
Oops! Meant to say 'all totally unknown to him.' Obviously!!
Best, Vanda


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