Nelson & His World

Discussion on the life and times of Admiral Lord Nelson
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 Post subject: Ferguson?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:00 am 
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I have just read Clennell Wilkinson's biography of Nelson in which he quotes someone he refers to only as 'Ferguson'. Ferguson makes numerous comments on Nelson's attitude to discipline, etc. It's not clear whether he is a contemporary who served with Nelson or a later commentator/biographer.

Wilkinson gives no notes, bibliography or references and I can't find any mention of Ferguson in other bibliographies. Does anyone know who he is?

CW's biography, (published in 1931) is, by the way, one of Michael Nash's 'Top Twenty' listed on another thread - that's why I bought it. It's competent, if a little dated, and superseded by subsequent research. I'm rather surprised that it's considered by one Nelson expert to be so important.

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Last edited by tycho on Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:09 am 
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Anna,

Ferguson, I can't find a Christian name, seems to have been a surgeon on board the Elephant at Copenhagen, although I don't know if he was the actual ship's surgeon or a supernumerary. He was mentioned with regard to the 'recall signal' incident, by Southey, where he says that Nelson spoke to Ferguson, who was later sent home aboard the captured 'Holsten' in charge of the wounded.

I could find no other information when googling, apart from there being a reference in Clarke and McArthur. (There was also the revelation that apparently there was a conference on medical matters concerning elephants, in Copenhagen, and with which somebody having the name Ferguson had some connection!)

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Last edited by Devenish on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:43 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:58 am 
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Anna,

Having a quick dip into various other books, Carola Oman writes just prior to the battle, of the 'Scottish Principal Medical Officer' on board the Elephant', which may point to his being the surgeon of the ship. Interestingly though the words are all in capitals, so was that his actual title and was he over and above the actual ship's surgeon?

On another point, I thought something didn't seem right when I read Southey's mention of Ferguson and Nelson's remarks with respect to the Signal. In most other books the man to whom Nelson spoke was Colonel Stewart, and Stewart says as much in his 'Narrative of events connected with the Conduct of Lord Nelson in the Baltic, 1801.' I imagine this was another case of Southey getting things wrong!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:36 pm 
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If it is indeed the Ferguson who was on the Elelphant at Copenhagen I can add a bit more information.

Some while back the Nelson Society published a book called Nelson's Flagship at Copenhagen: HMS Elephant and I have a copy of it here.

It includes the full muster of the ship in alphabetical order - so I quickly checked for Ferguson - but no one of that name is shown!!

I flicked through the rest of the book and purely by chance came on a section about the "Rifle Corps" and their part in the battle.

There is a separate list of names there being: "the men of the Rifle Corps transferred to the Elephant for the assault and returned to their previous vessel at the end of hostilities."

And lo and behold - there are the details:
Doctor Ferguson, surgeon
No: 264
Entered and appeared: 31/3/01
Previous ship: HMS London

HMS London was of course Hyde Parker's flagship.

The inference that Ferguson returned to HMS London appears to be incorrect based on Kester's information.

Ferguson is therefore a fairly minor character but he seems to have written a series of memoranda describing the battle which were first picked up by Clarke & McArthur and then by Nicolas.

Interesting that at one point he describes Nelson as "the first man in all the world".

Anna - can you give a couple of specific quotes attributed to "Ferguson" in Wilkinson and I will see if I can relate them to Doctor Ferguson's memoranda.

MB


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Many thanks, both, for those pointers.

Yes, the comments by Ferguson appear in the section of Wilkinson's book that deals with Copenhagen, so you've got the right man, I'm sure.

There are, in fact, only two quotes, not 'numerous' quotes as I said in my first post:

Wikinson says: '.....as in all fleets commanded by Nelson, everyone from powder-monkey to Admiral was 'on his toes'. And this he did without the slightest appearance of being a martinet. He hated punishments. Ferguson tells us that Nelson 'was more miserable and unhappy during the execution of a sentence than the culprit himself.'

and later, 'He was not a martinet, but as Ferguson says, 'he understood mankind and would lead them where he pleased.'

I'd be very interested to read Ferguson's memoranda in full if anyone knows how to track them down. (Can't afford a Clarke and McArthur!)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Anna

I feel reasonably confident now that we have got the right man.

And I am thinking there MIGHT be a slip in the "HMS Elephant" book. i.e. Ferguson's name was amongst the men transferred from HMS London who were mostly members of the Rifle Brigade. He is therefore bracketed with them. But he may have been completely separate and his transfer completely independent.

Must stress though that this is just guesswork on my behalf.

C & M state
Quote:
"The subsequent Narrative of the Battle of Copenhagen is chiefly taken from a valuable memoir which an Officer (Stewart) who was with Lord Nelson has furnished, and from the interesting Memoranda of another eye-witness, Mr Ferguson, surgeon of the Elephant, which have been transmitted by Mr Matcham through Sir Thomas Hardy".


However what they quote from Ferguson takes only just over one page and I don't see anything that relates directly to Wilkinson's references. I am guessing therefore that there is more besides - and maybe Wilkinson managed to trace the original memoranda.

The exact text included by C & M is then included in Nicolas's seven volumes of Nelson's letters (Vol IV pp 312 & 313). If you don't have a set of Nicolas you can find it here:

Click here

So where are those Ferguson memoranda? . . . is there more than C & M/Nicolas included? . . . did Wilkinson track them down?

Plenty here still to go for - or is there still a slight possibility that we are barking up the wrong tree??!!

MB


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:22 pm 
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Mark:

I'm pretty certain that Surgeon Ferguson is our man. I located a quotation from Ferguson in Dudley Pope's 500+ page book on Copenhagen, 'The Great Gamble'. It is a snippet from the longer piece you note in Nicolas which is, I suspect, where Pope got it. I combed Pope's detailed references and bibliography but there is no mention of Ferguson's memorandum/memoranda as a separate work or works.

I tried having a look at the BL Integrated Catalogue, but there is a knack to using that and I have not acquired it! I'm successful in about 10% of my searches there.

It is a valuable contemporary account from one who was not a seaman that should be of great interest. I wonder where it can be. TNA? NMM? Your bloodhound tendencies will be of use here, I think, Mark. Go, boy!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:57 pm 
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Go, boy!


Woof! Woof!! :D :D :D

I'll do my best - but I don't feel hugely optimistic!! (see below)

I found that one of the later volumes of the Naval Chronicle attributes a few more words to Ferguson and refers back to C & M.

I don't see those words there - so there seems to be some confusion as to what comes from Stewart's report and what from Ferguson's memoranda.

Could be me that's getting confused and/or Wilkinson and/or Southey (see Kester's comment above).

As you say - Ferguson's description of the battle is a very important document. The fact that Dudley Hope doesn't appear to have had sight of it gives me a strong feeling that it may not be in the public domain.

But if I get a brainwave or otherwise hit lucky will let you know.

MB


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:03 pm 
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Anna/Mark,

This would appear to be the brief details of our man (No. 110), from a book 'Surgeons at War', by Matthew Kaffman and concerning the training and status of British Military Surgeons in the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries:

http://books.google.se/books?id=dNqvB5w ... t&resnum=6

This would seem to suggest that he was connected to the Rifle Corps as their surgeon.

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Last edited by Devenish on Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:44 pm 
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Gentlemen, thank you, both!

I had a look at the website of the Museum of the Rifle Brigade, which has an archive of the regiment and associated corps. I've dropped them an email just on the off-chance that they might have a copy of the memorandum in their archive. ('Speramus dum spiramus' - 'As long as we breathe, we hope.' - I remember that much Latin!)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Kester

That's fantastic!

The bloodhound collar will be in the post!!

Obviously, before this, we hadn't realised there were 2 alternative spellings of the name - one or two s's.

Here is his entry from the Dictionary of National Biography.

Quote:
Fergusson, William (1773–1846), inspector-general of army hospitals, was born in Ayr, Scotland, on 19 June 1773. After an education at the Ayr Academy he attended medical classes at Edinburgh University, where he graduated MD; he afterwards trained at various London hospitals. In 1794 he became assistant surgeon in the army, and served in the Netherlands, the West Indies, the Baltic, and Spain, and in the expedition against Guadeloupe in 1815.

After retiring from the service in 1817, Fergusson settled in Edinburgh where he continued to practise medicine. Four years later, he moved to Windsor on the invitation of the duke of Gloucester, on whose staff he had been for twenty years. There Fergusson acquired a lucrative practice both in the town and the surrounding country, which he carried on until 1843, when he was disabled by paralysis. He died on 2 January 1846, at Grove End Road, St John's Wood, London. His Notes and Recollections of a Professional Life (1846), a collection of his papers on various subjects, was published by his son, James Fergusson (1808–1886), an architectural historian. The papers comprising this informative work are not all strictly medical, one considerable section of the book being on military tactics. There is an essay on syphilis in Portugal and its effect on both the British troops and the local inhabitants, which was originally published in Medico-Chirurgical Transactions (1813). However, his most important essay is on the ‘Nature and history of marsh poison’ (1821), reprinted from the Transactions of the Royal Society of Edinburgh (January 1820). Contemporaries praised the work and its author for his pronouncements on the subject of malaria, gained from experience with British troops in the Netherlands, Portugal, and the West Indies. Fergusson was probably the first to do justice, in a professional sense, to the fact that malarial fevers often occur on dry and barren soils, where rotting vegetation cannot possibly exist. The publication of this work was an important step towards widening and rationalizing the understanding of malaria.


Interesting that there is no specific mention of Nelson or Copenhagen - just the more vague reference to the Baltic.

Next challenge is to find the Notes and Recollections book published by his son - if we are really lucky it might include his Copenhagen memoranda. (but I learned over the years not to get too excited too soon)

MB


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 07, 2009 10:10 pm 
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No copy in Birmingham library - dash!

Copy in the British Library.

One copy on the internet for £300 - OUCH!!

I'm sure that one way or another we can check out this book without incurring too much cost.

MB


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:44 am 
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Mark/Anna,

At least I'll be 'getting it in the neck' another way, on the neck! :D

I came across this on Wikipedia, when looking up the Rifle Corps. I believe we are more interested in the navy, but I found it interesting in several ways:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rifle_Brigade

From it I found that the Corps were relatively new at the time of Copenhagen, having been partly formed by Colonel Stewart in 1800. With the various mergers of army regiments over the years they became, with other light infantry regiments, the Royal Green Jackets in 1966 and now from part of the new large regiment The Rifles, from 2007.

I noted with interest that the cap badge of the RGJ had at the base, beneath the Maltese Cross, a naval crown with the inscription 'Copenhagen, Apr. 2 1801'. I'll try and post a pic of it.

Anna,

You may like to know that the Rifles (and of course by implication the RGJ and the Rifle Brigade) are, if you didn't know already, affiliated to HMS Somerset!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:53 am 
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Many thanks for the info, Kester.

HMS Somerset received the freedom of the City of Wells a few years ago and of course we went along to see the ceremony on the Cathedral Green.

Representatives from the ship and from The Rifles also attended the ceremony at which Harry Patch, 'The last fighting Tommy' from World War 1, who lives in Wells, received the freedom of the city.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/somerset/7718690.stm

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:10 am 
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Thanks Anna,

I thought you might have known!

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