Nelson & His World

If Nelson were to raise up and visit us for a short time, say a week, what do you think he would do? Where would he go, what would he want to see, what would he talk about and to whom? What would he think?

I know it's a bit of a silly question but in my defence I'm asking it for research purposes for a little project And as you all have studied him for far longer than I have, I'm very interested in your thoughts

Okay I cannot resist and apologies for the less than serious response

It's 200 years since Lord Nelson's famous naval victory over the French and Spanish at the Battle of Trafalgar. To kick-start the anniversary celebrations, an actor dressed as Nelson, posed for pictures on the River Thames at Greenwich.

But before he was allowed to board a RNLI Lifeboat, safety officials made him wear a lifejacket over his 19th. Century admiral's uniform.

How would Nelson and the country have fared if he had been subject to modern political correctness and health and safety regulations? We would all be speaking French now!!

You are now on the deck of the recently renamed 'HMS Appeasement!'

Nelson - Give the order to hoist my signal Hardy.

Hardy - Aye Aye Sir

N - Hold on - that is not the signal I dictated to my signals officer.

H - Sorry Sir.

N - England expects every person to do his duty, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religious persuasion or disability. What gobbledegook is this?

H - Admiralty policy I'm afraid, Sir. We're an equal opportunities employer now. We had devils own job getting 'England' past the censors, lest it be considered racist

N -Gadzooks, Hardy Hand me my pipe and tobacco.

H - Sorry Sir, All naval vessels have been designated smoke-free working environments.

N - In that case, break open a cask of rum. Let us splice the main brace to steel the men before battle.

H - The rum ration has been abolished Admiral. It's a part of Governments policy on binge drinking.

N - Good heavens Hardy, I suppose we had better get on with it. Full speed ahead.

H - I think you'll find there is a 4-knot speed limit on this stretch of water.

N - Dammit man, we are on the eve of the greatest sea fight in history. We must attack with all dispatch. Report from the crow's nest, please!

H - That won't be possible Sir.

N - What?

H - Health and Safety have closed the crow's nest sir, No harness. They say that the rope ladder does not meet with regulations. They won't let anyone up there until a proper scaffolding can be erected.

N - Then get the ships' carpenter without delay, Hardy.

H - Unfortunately he's busy knocking up wheelchair access to the fo'c'sle, Admiral.

N - Wheelchair access? I've never heard anything so absurd. H - Health and Safety again, Sir. We have to provide a barrier-free environment for the differently abled.

N - Differently abled? I've only one arm and one eye and I refuse even to hear mention of the word. I didn't rise to the rank of admiral by playing the disability card.

H - Actually Sir, you did. The Royal Navy is under-represented in the areas of visual impairment and limb deficiency.

N -Whatever next? Give me full sail. The salt spray beckons.

H - A couple of problems there, too Sir. Health and Safety won't let the men aloft without crash helmets. And they don't want anyone breathing in too much salt - haven't you seen the adverts?

N - I've never heard of such infamy. Break out the cannon and tell the men to stand by to engage the enemy.

H - The men are a bit worried about shooting at anyone, Admiral.

N - What? This is mutiny.

H - It's not that Sir, It's just that they are afraid of being charged for murder if they actually kill anyone. There are a couple of human rights lawyers on board, watching everyone like hawks.

N - Then how are we supposed to sink the French and the Spanish?

H - Actually Sir, we're not!

N - We're not?

H - No Sir, The French and Spanish are our European partners now. According to the Common Fisheries Policy, we shouldn't even be in this stretch of water. We could get hit with a huge claim for compensation.

N - But you must hate a Frenchman as you hate the devil.

H - I wouldn't let the ship's diversity co-ordinator hear you saying that Sir You could be up on a disciplinary.

N - But surely you must consider every man an enemy who speaks ill of your King.

H - Not any more sir. We must be inclusive in this multicultural age. Now put on your Kevlar vest, it's the rules.

N - Don't tell me - Health and Safety. What happened to rum, sodomy and the lash?

H - As I explained Sir, Rum is off the menu, and there is a ban on corporal punishment.

N - What about sodomy?

H - I believe that is to be encouraged Sir.

N - Thank God for that - In that case - kiss me Hardy!

Well, I guess you have to think about what you would do if you suddenly woke up 200 years into the future! I imagine it would be a bit overwhelming at first because the world has changed so much since his time! I think he would be quite amazed and perhaps even feel slightly uneasy at all the new technology that he'd have to get used to.

Like anybody else, I suppose he'd be interested in all major events that happened in history since his death. And I think he would be longing to know everything that happened immediatley after Trafalgar. How was the fleet after the battle, what was his funeral like, how did the war go? Most importantly, he would want to know what happened to the friends and family he left behind, particularly Emma and Horatia.

If I met him, I would probably take him on a tour of all the Nelson sites in Britain, like his tomb in St. Paul's Cathedral, Nelson's column, Norfolk, Portsmouth etc. I think he would like to see those. Also, I'd tell him about all the books and tv programs that had been made about him and the big Trafalgar 200 celebrations in 2005. And I'd have to show him what the Royal Navy looks like today as it's changed quite a bit since the sailing navy. It would be interesting to know what he'd think. Would he be proud, shocked, dismayed? What would he think of Britain nowadays in general and the rest of the world? I wouldn't like to say.
What do you think?

Thanks for such an original topic. And Matrim, your Nelson and Hardy scenario had me in stitches. It certainly livened up the forum. But beneath the mirth, I have to say so much of it is true.

And if he did come back today, he would find he would be yet another admiral without a ship!

I think modern communications would fascinate Nelson if he were to return. When you consider the desperation he felt chasing the French before the Nile and Trafalgar, dependent on passing ships and his own instincts for finding his quarry, what would he have made of all the devices available today?

I think he would be surprised and delighted to have a navy consisting of 100% volunteers with no pressed men (or women!); though I think he would thoroughly disapprove of the latter.

When you think of the problems Nelson had victualling his fleet and the enormous trouble he took to get fresh produce, he would marvel at modern refrigeration facilities aboard ship.

And I think he would give three cheers for anaesthetics!

PS Many thanks for the kind messages and private emails regarding Mr Tycho's surgery - this went very well and he is making good progress.

Vicki,

In the unlikely event that he should return, I am sure he would be most interested in:

a) learning of all the changes to his old profession, the Royal Navy, including the substitution of sail for steam and nuclear power, the vast changes in weaponry and technology, and the modern organisation of the service. I am sure that he would be particularly interested in the welfare of the men and women themselves, since that was close to his heart in his own day, but he would probably also note that although technology moves on a pace, human aspirations and faults don't actually change that much. As Anna said, he would be gratified to learn that the men and women of the RN are all volunteers, that the press gang is no more, and that the officers now care 'more than tuppence' over them. He might however draw parallels between the politicians of his time and those of today, where the RN (and the other services) are concerned!

b) finding out about all those that he had known and where they are buried. I can imagine him being shocked to find that Emma had been forced to flee to France, by a government which hadn't carried out his wishes, along with Horatia, and would have been saddened by her impoverished death. However, he would have been gratified to learn of how Horatia had fared afterwards. I can imagine him taking the ferry to Calais to visit Emma's memorial (once he had gotten over his distrust of the French, and the fact that they are now allies). I also think he would be interested to learn of Fanny's later life.

c) visiting many of the places he had known, especially the Victory, 'I see they have her laid up in ordinary, now'; Merton, although he would presumably not recognise much; and Burnham and areas of Norfolk, some of which he would recognise.

d) perhaps trying to regain his seat in the House of Lords, and taking an interest in politics – especially where it affected the RN.

e) visiting his Dukedom in Bronte – only to find that it has been turned into a museum.

f) being made Life President (extended) of of both the Nelson Society and the 1805 Club, and retaining his rank (perhaps even gaining promotion) in the RN – at least on paper! (I can imagine him on the bridge of a modern warship, 'What does this do... ah!' )

LOL that made me smile

Well, I somehow get the impression that Nelson 'was' ('is' for this exercise) a 'hands on' type of man.

Hahaha Matrim, that really made me laugh! There is an element of truth to it, and I can imagine the conversation progressing like that.

Raerae I agree with you, I think he would want to see the monuments etc dedicated to him. I think he'd be gratified, and probably surprised, to find that he was so venerated after his death, considering how disgruntled he was with the way he was treated by officials in life (apart from the public adulation). He'd be pleased that he'd got the credit he deserved, though I think he'd be keen to raise the profile of his officers.

I certainly think he'd want to visit Merton, but would be quite upset at what happened to it. I'm not sure if he would want to visit his own tomb though! But he might do, if only to pay his respects to Collingwood while he was there. I think he'd be overwhelmed by the scale of his funeral and humbled by having been buried at St Paul's despite being a 'commoner'.

I think he'd be fascinated by the books written about him, but I can see him having a strong word with the authors who were most critical of him, and be especially upset at those who were less than complimentary about Emma.

Kester and Anna, I do agree that he would definitely be extremely interested in the modern navy (Kester I like your last comment - I can totally picture that!), and be amazed by the difference in communications, medicine, welfare, and the nature of warfare in general. But I think he'd be dismayed by the way the armed forces are, generally-speaking, viewed with less than high regard by a lot of people now, and the politial-correctness that tends to hang over any celebrations to them.

Anna, I do wonder whether he would disapprove of women in the navy? I'm sure it would shock him at first, but didn't he seem to have a relatively liberal view about women? He obviously saw their value in diplomacy and intelligence-gathering and knew of their continued presence on his ships, despite being told by St Vincent to get rid.

Kester, I can too imagine that he'd be interested in the Nelson Society, though being made Life President of it would be surreal! (as would visiting his own tomb, for that matter!). If he made it back into the House of Lords, I think he'd fight for a bigger deal to be made of the anniversary of Trafalgar every year, and for it to be a public holiday.


Thankyou for all your responses, I'm finding it very interesting to read your thoughts

Vicki,

Glad you liked all our replies – and you've provided some good ones of your own to fill in the gaps. Can you tell us any more about your project, or is it too soon?

It's a short story I'm always writing so my obsession was bound to leak into my work sooner or later.

Vicki,

Sounds interesting. I guess we'll just have to wait then...

I'll let you know when it's finished

I am sure his Lordship would have been involved in this, as an honoured guest:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZo0iK1tSJw

I can imagine him seated next to the Queen on the 'Spirit of Chartwell', where the conversation perhaps goes something like this:

LN: 'Ma'm, this is all very splendid, but I am experiencing a sense of déjá vu, you know.'

Queen: 'I imagine that you must be my Lord, seeing that the former occasion was not unfortunately so advantageous to yourself.'

LN: 'Ma'm, if you mean that I was then horizontal, rather than vertical, you are right. However, I have been told that it was a great occasion.'

Queen: 'As great as this one, do you think?'

LN: 'Perhaps Ma'm, I can't really say – and we were going the other way.'

Haha! I like that

And yes I can imagine him being very interested in being part of the event.